Terry Francona A Mistake For Boston?

[Wolf Hopper]

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/ba...p-125188c.html

Let's see if we got this right: The Red Sox fired Grady Little as their manager because he was too much of a players' manager and allowed Pedro Martinez to make perhaps the most critical decision in the franchise's history. But now, as one of the key selling points in convincing Curt Schilling to waive his no-trade clause and come to them for a two-year, $24 million contract extension, the Red Sox are hiring Terry Francona, the pitcher's former manager with the Phillies.

When the deal came down that was to send Schilling, 37, from Arizona to the Red Sox for what amounts to be lefty Casey Fossum and a lot of minor-league jetsom, the Red Sox were quick to make note that Francona, who was fired by the Phillies in 2000 after four straight losing seasons (285-363 overall), had somehow emerged as their first choice to succeed Little. What made this even more hyprocritical on the Red Sox' part was them bringing in Texas first base coach DeMarlo Hale - the only minority candidate they interviewed - last Tuesday at the same time they were so much as telling Schilling "come to us and it'll be your guy." Hale must have had a delightful interview.

Francona will be officially named the new Boston manager on Tuesday and all you can say to that is: Will the Red Sox ever get it? Francona is a nice guy (what was it Leo Durocher said about them?), very personable and undoubtedly a willing advocate of Sabermatics, which the Red Sox brass has made a primary requisite for its manager. The players all liked him in Philadelphia. They just didn't play for him, and anyone who was around the Phillies those four years will attest to Francona being in severely over his head.

Nevertheless, the Red Sox brass is clearly going for it all next year with a bust-the-budget roster that is banking on two aging and delicate starting pitchers - Martinez and Schilling - to do the heavy lifting for them. After 2004, their core players - Martinez, Nomar Garciaparra, Jason Varitek, Martinez, and Trot Nixon - are all free agents and likely to be gone. In the meantime, though, the pamper-the-superstars, country-club environment goes on in Boston as now the newest Red Sox supertstar has brought in his own manager with him.

Agree or disagree?

[Wolf Hopper]

IMHO, Bill Madden is so far up the Big Stein's booty that he's wearing a turtleneck by osmosis. It's hard to take him seriously when talking about Boston, because of that.

[sweaver]

"Sabermatics?"

[LeGrandOrange]

I've personally been uncertain that Francona is a good fit. This was a guy who got fired from Philadelphia with 2 years left in his contract...he must've done something really wrong to go from getting a contract extension to getting it terminated in 12 months. Probably wasn't his fault, but I have my doubts that he'll work in Boston.

And thumbs down to minority hiring practices, I'm really tired of these token black interviews teams have when they've already got a choice made. I really would hate to have been DeMarlo Hale...

[SmedIndy]

He may be a better fit for Boston because he had young arms in Philly and didn't work well with them. And I'm sure Theo will tell him not to mess with little ball.

[KCBOOMER]

It is so tough to figure out managers. None of them are any good without horses.

Originally Posted by sweaver

"Sabermatics?"

The core theory behind Saber-obics - and exercise philosophy based on fencing - just with bigger swords.

I think Francona will be a pretty good fit. What killed them was not friendliness ...or lack of it...when did team chemistry pom-pom teams show up on Netshrine any way =)

But a stubbornness to do this in a traditional way - LITTLE WAS VERY SUCCESSFUL! but I think he was largely blamed for things that no manager could control - utter lack of talent in the bullpen, high expectation based on Mueller and Millar as regards expectations (see Exhibit Kim) and a short starting staff. And sure, some Manny stuff. But he got a game from the Series...I mean come on.

That said, Francona is a smart guy and did very well with a bad team - let's not throw those records out there without acknowledging the Phils teams in he inherited were very bad and he did pretty well with them under budget durress - and he was fired for a favorite son shortly after he was a favorite for manager of the year.

If they give him some rope -he isn'tgoing to hang himself, he's gonna harness some brass....IMO.

[JamesI]

To be honest, I really don't know. My instict is this is not a good move

[Jim Rice]

By Madden's theory, no one would have given Torre a second chance either. His record at his first managerial stop was 286-420 (.405), a lot worse than Francona's mark of 285-363 (.440), but that doesn't seem to have impeded his later success. Francona deserves the same second chance. Funny how much smarter managers get with a talented roster.

Originally Posted by Jim Rice

By Madden's theory, no one would have given Torre a second chance either. His record at his first managerial stop was 286-420 (.405), a lot worse than Francona's mark of 285-363 (.440), but that doesn't seem to have impeded his later success. Francona deserves the same second chance. Funny how much smarter managers get with a talented roster.

Exactly - notice how the 'dynasty' has crumbled more and more after Stick and Showalter set him up - not so easy to do a WS team -although I see Buck did it again....and has another young and talented team.....

[Rajah]

What was it that warren spahn said (RIP)? Something like: "I was the only person to work with Casey Stengel before and after he was a genius".

Managers are only as good as their roster.

Originally Posted by Rajah

What was it that warren spahn said (RIP)? Something like: "I was the only person to work with Casey Stengel before and after he was a genius".

Managers are only as good as their roster.

Well....Larry Bowa had a pretty roster and look what he did. I think there are good managers and bad ones. Much as sabremetrecians.....errr...Saber-matics instructors hate to say, Dusty has produced pretty good results - so has Felipe Alou. How much that has to do with a style that worked locally and then a recommitment to investment from ownership only Pat "westhead did not invent showtime (ignore that Championship behind the curtain) Riley's hairdresser knows.....

[TimmyB]

The consensus around Boston is/was that Grady Little wasn't much of a manager... and he took them to within 5 outs of the World Series.

I'm with Boomer on this... just give any major-league caliber manager the horses...

(This can be screwed up, of course.)

Bottom line: Theo wants a manager who thinks along the brass' line (ie. NFL-type coach analytical thinking... also known as a follower of -- ahem -- sabermatics... ).

I don't think the Sox caved-in to Schilling. Francona has been at or near the top of the list from the beginning.

[Domeboys]

Gotta agree with those who say the Red Sox are going all out for 2004. Certainly Francona should do just fine. It's all about the roster he is given.

[pathogan]

in late september...any other guess is simply that