Mike Scioscia or Gene Tenace?

sweaver · 11-24-2003, 09:54 PM

Which of these not-quite-contemporary catchers would you choose? This may be as much a choice of style as quality.

nyy26wc · 11-25-2003, 11:04 AM

Tenace by a landslide.

For example, career RCAA: Tenace 259, Scioscia 4

Wolf Hopper · 11-25-2003, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweaver

Which of these not-quite-contemporary catchers would you choose?

Mike, hands down.

Tenace caught more than 80 games in a season 4 times in 15 years.
Scioscia caught 100+ 9 years in a row.

Again, the question is - which catcher would you want - not which batter would you want.

With Tenace as your catcher, you need to find someone else to catch all the ball games that you would need to fill in when he is not catching.

This is like comparing Jim Leyritz to Rick Cerone.
As batters, yes, go with the hitter - - but, if you want a catcher, well, you want a guy who can catch, no?

nyy26wc · 11-25-2003, 11:22 AM

The thing that games caught indicates is how many times the particular player was "the guy playing the position."

If having "guy playing the position" has any value, then it is immediately negated in every single game by the other team having same "guy playing the position."

Wolf Hopper · 11-25-2003, 11:24 AM

Casey Stengel said it best - - -
You gotta have a catcher. If you don't have a catcher you'll have all passed balls.

nyy26wc · 11-25-2003, 11:43 AM

And if you don't have a hitter, you'll forfeit the game by not having 9 games in the batting order.

Wolf Hopper · 11-25-2003, 12:26 PM

I think we're drifting on this one...........

KCBOOMER · 11-25-2003, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nyy26wc

Tenace by a landslide.

For example, career RCAA: Tenace 259, Scioscia 4

Or OWP: Tenace .670, Scioscia .498.

Skip · 11-25-2003, 04:37 PM

I strongly dislike (hate) Tenace (Satan) for personal (Reds) reasons, but still pick him (darnit) here.

Fuzzy Bear · 11-25-2003, 06:35 PM

Tenace was the better player, period.

I say that even though Scoscia was, for a very short time before Piazza, the best catcher in the NL. This, however, was short-lived, and due to a dearth of talent caused by the decline of Gary Carter, the return of Lance Parrish to the AL in 1990, and the failure of Benito Santiago to develop much beyond his rookie year.

Tenace was a guy who always had offensive value, and a guy around whom you could build a very effective glove/stick platoon, playing Tenace at another position when the other guy caught. Scoscia didn't hit enough to play anywhere but catcher.

LeGrandOrange · 11-26-2003, 12:30 AM

I have to pick Tenace because...well, there had never been anyone like him before and no one like him since, much to Billy Beane and Theo Epstein's chagrin. (Surprised they haven't tried to clone him...)
Scioscia was good but he was just an above-average catcher. Tenace was basically a great player, and in ways we'd never seen before. Gino was something really special, and thus he gets my nod easily.

sweaver · 11-29-2003, 09:04 PM

I think they're almost even, with Scioscia's defensive value and on-base skills balancing Tenace's walks and power. But I'll take Scioscia.

gyb13 · 12-05-2003, 12:09 PM

tenace, easily

View Poll Results: Scioscia or Tenace?
Mike Scioscia	4	33.33%
Gene Tenace	8	66.67%
Scioscia for peak, Tenace for career	0	0%
Tenace for peak, Scioscia for career	0	0%
Voters: 12. You may not vote on this poll

11-24-2003, 09:54 PM	#1
sweaver Netshrine Cleanup Hitter Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Mountain State Posts: 8,883	Mike Scioscia or Gene Tenace? Which of these not-quite-contemporary catchers would you choose? This may be as much a choice of style as quality.

11-25-2003, 11:04 AM	#2
nyy26wc NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: NJ Posts: 14,584	Tenace by a landslide. For example, career RCAA: Tenace 259, Scioscia 4 __________________ Lee Creator, Complete Baseball Encyclopedia. It's powerful, yet extremely easy to use. Features extensive sorting and stat display options. The CBE has many features that are not available in online and printed sources. Has 2006 stats and daily update service for 2007.

11-25-2003, 11:22 AM	#4
nyy26wc NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: NJ Posts: 14,584	The thing that games caught indicates is how many times the particular player was "the guy playing the position." If having "guy playing the position" has any value, then it is immediately negated in every single game by the other team having same "guy playing the position." __________________ Lee Creator, Complete Baseball Encyclopedia. It's powerful, yet extremely easy to use. Features extensive sorting and stat display options. The CBE has many features that are not available in online and printed sources. Has 2006 stats and daily update service for 2007.

11-25-2003, 11:24 AM	#5
Wolf Hopper NetShrine Creator & Curator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: NetShrine WHQ Posts: 6,191	Casey Stengel said it best - - - You gotta have a catcher. If you don't have a catcher you'll have all passed balls. __________________ Steve, Forum Administrator POSTING TIP FOR THE DAY: When composing a post, think about what you would say if the intended recipient was an individual who was actually sitting just two feet in front of you, in person, rather than just some far away and anonymous audience who only can identify you as text on a PC screen - - and then write your post in that manner. It makes for remarkable and sincere discourse.

11-25-2003, 11:43 AM	#6
nyy26wc NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: NJ Posts: 14,584	And if you don't have a hitter, you'll forfeit the game by not having 9 games in the batting order. __________________ Lee Creator, Complete Baseball Encyclopedia. It's powerful, yet extremely easy to use. Features extensive sorting and stat display options. The CBE has many features that are not available in online and printed sources. Has 2006 stats and daily update service for 2007.

11-25-2003, 12:26 PM	#7
Wolf Hopper NetShrine Creator & Curator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: NetShrine WHQ Posts: 6,191	I think we're drifting on this one........... __________________ Steve, Forum Administrator POSTING TIP FOR THE DAY: When composing a post, think about what you would say if the intended recipient was an individual who was actually sitting just two feet in front of you, in person, rather than just some far away and anonymous audience who only can identify you as text on a PC screen - - and then write your post in that manner. It makes for remarkable and sincere discourse.

11-25-2003, 04:37 PM	#9
Skip NetShrine Vagabond Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Louisville Posts: 7,866	I strongly dislike (hate) Tenace (Satan) for personal (Reds) reasons, but still pick him (darnit) here.

11-25-2003, 06:35 PM	#10
Fuzzy Bear NetShrine's Evangelist Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Living by faith, and not by sight! Posts: 2,194	Tenace was the better player, period. I say that even though Scoscia was, for a very short time before Piazza, the best catcher in the NL. This, however, was short-lived, and due to a dearth of talent caused by the decline of Gary Carter, the return of Lance Parrish to the AL in 1990, and the failure of Benito Santiago to develop much beyond his rookie year. Tenace was a guy who always had offensive value, and a guy around whom you could build a very effective glove/stick platoon, playing Tenace at another position when the other guy caught. Scoscia didn't hit enough to play anywhere but catcher.

11-26-2003, 12:30 AM	#11
LeGrandOrange Membership Suspended 4/11/04 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Tacoma, WA Posts: 3,783	I have to pick Tenace because...well, there had never been anyone like him before and no one like him since, much to Billy Beane and Theo Epstein's chagrin. (Surprised they haven't tried to clone him...) Scioscia was good but he was just an above-average catcher. Tenace was basically a great player, and in ways we'd never seen before. Gino was something really special, and thus he gets my nod easily.

11-29-2003, 09:04 PM	#12
sweaver Netshrine Cleanup Hitter Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Mountain State Posts: 8,883	I think they're almost even, with Scioscia's defensive value and on-base skills balancing Tenace's walks and power. But I'll take Scioscia.

12-05-2003, 12:09 PM	#13
gyb13 NS Omnipresent Brasilian Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Crazy George's playground Posts: 10,903	tenace, easily __________________ Gustavo NDF Moderator Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin

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