Looie or Rabbit?

sweaver · 11-18-2003, 10:50 PM

Choose between a couple of light-hitting defensive specialists, Rabbit Maranville and Luis Aparicio. Which would you take?

Ytown Tribe fan · 11-18-2003, 11:14 PM

Interesting. I've always been a fan of Rabbit Maranville and always thought he deserved his plaque in Cooperstown (a minority opinion). Still -- without looking much, I would've picked Luis all the way.

What Would James Do? James would look at career Win Shares (302 to 293), Top three seasons (27,24,23 to 22,21,20), top-five seasons total (110-92) and WS/162 (18.32 to 18.26) and then he would add his secret ingredient (adjustment for modern era "difficulty"), and vote for the wrong guy.

Rabbit was the leader in all four Win Shares indicators above but, because he played much earlier when the game was so "easy" he was rated 38th among shortstops while Luis was 13th.

Rabbit also had more defensive Win Shares at shortstop, despite having played over 3000 fewer innings at the position. He also had more career batting Win Shares.

I'm sorry if this is turning into a rant about Bill James, especially since I largely agree with his Win Shares methods. I just wish he'd USE them when rating players. Instead, he has become the Maury Allen type, taking players from the '50s and '60s over earlier (and later) players despite what his own methods show. It's exactly the same with his rating Mays over Cobb in CF.

Rabbit in a landslide.

pwdennis · 11-19-2003, 01:36 AM

I picked Aparicio, always my choice as the best defensive shortstop I've ever seen, and the man who reintroduced the running game back into baseball during the 1950s

KCBOOMER · 11-19-2003, 12:01 PM

I'll go with Aparicio. For starters looie played more than 400 more games at short than Rabbit. Their range factors versus the league and fielding percentages versus the league are virtually the same.

Offensively Looie buries him. He leads in career RCAA by -180 to -280 (neither were offensive juggernauts) though Rabbit has a very slightly better peak. Looie has an OPS versus the league of -.064 while Rabbits is -.073. Looie's OPW is .425 to Rabbit's .401.

View Poll Results: Maranville or Aparicio?
Aparicio for career, Maranville for peak	0	0%
Maranville for career, Aparacio for peak	0	0%
Aparicio all the way	4	66.67%
Maranville all the way	2	33.33%
Voters: 6. You may not vote on this poll

11-18-2003, 10:50 PM	#1
sweaver Netshrine Cleanup Hitter Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Mountain State Posts: 8,883	Looie or Rabbit? Choose between a couple of light-hitting defensive specialists, Rabbit Maranville and Luis Aparicio. Which would you take?

11-18-2003, 11:14 PM	#2
Ytown Tribe fan Guest Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Scrappers territory Posts: 2,515	Interesting. I've always been a fan of Rabbit Maranville and always thought he deserved his plaque in Cooperstown (a minority opinion). Still -- without looking much, I would've picked Luis all the way. What Would James Do? James would look at career Win Shares (302 to 293), Top three seasons (27,24,23 to 22,21,20), top-five seasons total (110-92) and WS/162 (18.32 to 18.26) and then he would add his secret ingredient (adjustment for modern era "difficulty"), and vote for the wrong guy. Rabbit was the leader in all four Win Shares indicators above but, because he played much earlier when the game was so "easy" he was rated 38th among shortstops while Luis was 13th. Rabbit also had more defensive Win Shares at shortstop, despite having played over 3000 fewer innings at the position. He also had more career batting Win Shares. I'm sorry if this is turning into a rant about Bill James, especially since I largely agree with his Win Shares methods. I just wish he'd USE them when rating players. Instead, he has become the Maury Allen type, taking players from the '50s and '60s over earlier (and later) players despite what his own methods show. It's exactly the same with his rating Mays over Cobb in CF. Rabbit in a landslide. Last edited by Ytown Tribe fan : 11-18-2003 at 11:16 PM.

11-19-2003, 01:36 AM	#3
pwdennis NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Winter Springs, FL Posts: 2,503	I picked Aparicio, always my choice as the best defensive shortstop I've ever seen, and the man who reintroduced the running game back into baseball during the 1950s __________________ "I would submit that if the world survives for a million years, perhaps its finest hour may be that in the last half of the 20th century, when the power to blow up the world rested in the hands of a few men in two very unsophisticated and suspicious countries, we didn't do it, and one American, Richard Nixon, moved the cold war away from permanent confrontation toward victory. How could any wrong that he did compare with that?" - John Sears

11-19-2003, 12:01 PM	#4
KCBOOMER NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Home of the T-Bones Posts: 11,116	I'll go with Aparicio. For starters looie played more than 400 more games at short than Rabbit. Their range factors versus the league and fielding percentages versus the league are virtually the same. Offensively Looie buries him. He leads in career RCAA by -180 to -280 (neither were offensive juggernauts) though Rabbit has a very slightly better peak. Looie has an OPS versus the league of -.064 while Rabbits is -.073. Looie's OPW is .425 to Rabbit's .401. __________________ KCBOOMER *Buck O'Neil: The Monarch of Baseball*

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