MLB in DC

Shel · 04-30-2001, 10:36 PM

Just curious -- anyone think a MLB team will return to Washington DC anytime soon? Do you think DC should get another team?

NetShrine · 04-30-2001, 10:47 PM

They had two shots at it - - why would a third one end up any different?

BuzzBuzzard · 05-01-2001, 07:11 AM

Two strikes and you're out, or something like that.

95mph · 05-01-2001, 10:56 AM

With the president being such a baseball freak I don't doubt is he pushes for one. I think the more the merrier.

NetShrine · 05-01-2001, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 95mph
With the president being such a baseball freak I don't doubt is he pushes for one. I think the more the merrier.

Don't know if this is true or not, but, I think I once heard that the teams in DC did poorly because all the power-brokers there wanted/got comp tickets. Anyone else ever hear that?

95mph · 05-02-2001, 07:53 AM

Well I can't figure out how to post pictures, but here are links to some pictures of Dubya. Maybe he's not a baseball freak, but you can tell he loves the sport. Did you see him throw the opening pitch for the Brewers(I think it was the Brewers)?

http://www.georgewbush.com/bushchene...album/two.html

http://www.georgewbush.com/bushchene...lbum/four.html

http://www.georgewbush.com/bushchene...um/eleven.html

NetShrine · 05-02-2001, 07:55 AM

Thanks for the links 95!

Shel · 05-02-2001, 10:17 AM

And then there are those t-ball games on the White House lawn!

I think DC deserves another chance at a MLB team (either in the District itself, or in Northern Virginia, which is one of the proposals). The demographics of the DC metro area have changed dramatically since the Senators left town 30 years ago. The population has increased, as have incomes, and I think the DC area would be able to support a team.

Peter Asselos would, of course, scream bloody murder, claiming that a team in the DC area would harm the Orioles at the box office. Considering the mismanagement by the Orioles' front office -- most notably by Angeloser himself -- they're doing a darn good job at killing ticket sales all by themselves.

NetShrine · 05-02-2001, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Shel
I think DC deserves another chance at a MLB team (either in the District itself, or in Northern Virginia, which is one of the proposals). The demographics of the DC metro area have changed dramatically since the Senators left town 30 years ago. The population has increased, as have incomes, and I think the DC area would be able to support a team.

Shoot, they could move the Expos there - - they couldn't do any worse in DC than Montreal.

Shel · 05-03-2001, 08:57 AM

A few years ago, the Expos actually appeared to be on the verge of moving to DC. In fact, had they moved they'd have been playing at RFK Stadium this season (and next season too, I think), while a new stadium was being built. But the Expos' owner changed his mind at the very last minute...he got some kind of favorable vote from local politicians or something, to keep the Expos in Montreal. It was a major blow to the "Baseball in DC" movement.

I'm hopeful that DC will get a MLB team someday. Not terribly optimistic about DC's chances for a team, but still hopeful nonetheless.

NetShrine · 05-03-2001, 10:09 PM

Hope springs eternal!

Anyone remember the Woddy Allen bit about Hope and feathers? Gotta look for that.

NetShrine · 05-03-2001, 10:14 PM

Something like this:

Emily Dickinson said, "Hope is the thing with feathers."

Woody Allen said, "How wrong she was! The thing with feathers turns out to be my nephew. I must take him to a specialist in Zurich."

(This from his book "Without Feathers.")

Guess you had to be there?

Shel · 05-30-2001, 11:57 PM

The following article appeared in today's Washington Post. Considering the fact that the study mentioned in the article was funded by a group trying to bring baseball back to DC, I think the results should be taken with a grain of salt. I don't believe that the portion of the Orioles fan base coming from the DC area is as high as 25%, as the Orioles claim, but I also think that more than 13% of the O's fan base is from the DC area. I'm guessing that DC area fans make up about 18-20% of the Orioles fan base.

And I think that there are more than enough fans in the Baltimore area to to support the Orioles. What a slap in the face it must be for Baltimore area fans to have the Orioles insinuate that they wouldn't be able to support their own team.

Here's the article:

Study: D.C. Area Team Won't Hurt The Orioles
Baltimore Begs to Differ

By Thomas Heath
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, May 30, 2001; Page D01

A group seeking to bring a Major League Baseball team to Northern Virginia will release a study today claiming 13 percent of Baltimore Orioles fans come from the Washington metro area, far less than the 25 percent or so that the Orioles have claimed in the past, according to a copy of the study.

The $175,000 report, funded by the Virginia Baseball Stadium Authority and conducted last season through in-person interviews outside Orioles games and telephone interviews with Orioles fans, concludes that a Washington area baseball franchise would have very little impact on Orioles attendance. In addition to the in-person and telephone interviews, a third random telephone survey interviewed residents who do not attend Orioles games, according to the survey.

"These findings contradict previous published statements from the Orioles that the Greater Washington metro area accounted for as much as one-third of their attendance," said the report, which was obtained by The Post yesterday.

Orioles officials discounted the Virginia report, according to an Orioles spokesman.

"They aren't the ones mailing out our season tickets, or filling out orders through TicketMaster, the telephone or the Internet," said Orioles spokesman Bill Stetka. "Our numbers show that fans from the Washington region are significantly higher than what the study reportedly says."

The study was conducted by three groups, including the New York-based polling firm of Penn, Schoen and Berland Associates Inc., which has done research for Major League Baseball as well as several major Fortune 500 corporations, including Citibank, American Express and Procter & Gamble. The other members of the project team are Goal Group Consulting, L.L.C. of Chicago, and Kagan Media Appraisals Inc., a leading media research firm.

The report states that of the 13 percent of Orioles fans who come from the Washington metro area, 8 percent live in Montgomery and Prince George's counties, 4 percent live in Northern Virginia and 1 percent reside in the District.

The majority of Orioles fans, 58 percent, come from the Baltimore metropolitan area, according to the study. Another 7 percent come from Pennsylvania, 4 percent from New Jersey and the rest from various other states, including Delaware, New York and West Virginia.

Last year the Orioles drew 3.3 million fans, which came to an average of just under 41,000 fans per game. If the report's numbers are correct, that means the Washington metro area contributes about 5,330 fans for each Orioles game.

According to the report, a baseball team in Northern Virginia would have less impact on the Orioles than a team in the District. That's because more fans in Montgomery and Prince George's counties go to Camden Yards than those from the District or Northern Virginia, according to the report.

Based on the report, then, a team in Northern Virginia would reduce attendance at Camden Yards by about 932 fans a game; a team in the District would cost the Orioles about 1,090 fans a game.

The 121-page report goes on to say that Northern Virginia is more fertile territory for a Major League Baseball franchise than the District, estimating that more than 200,000 people in the metro area who do not attend baseball games would become at least occasional fans if a team were in Northern Virginia. By comparison, a team in the District would create 162,000 new fans from the metro area.

A Northern Virginia investor group led by businessman William Collins has studied several locations for building a stadium, including both urban and suburban sites in Arlington and Fairfax counties.

Washington businessman Fred Malek, who is leading an investor group that is trying to put a team in the District, said Northern Virginia is a viable market for a baseball team, but that Washington is better because of its central location.

"If you went up in an airplane and looked at this area without thinking political boundaries and looked at the confluence of transportation, of jobs and people, you would put it right in the center, which happens to be in downtown Washington," Malek said.

Officials at the Virginia Baseball Authority declined to comment on the study. They have scheduled a news conference for today.

Commissioner Bud Selig could not be reached for comment. Selig has been reluctant to support the return of Major League Baseball to the Washington/Northern Virginia region, for among other reasons a concern it would have a negative impact on Orioles attendance. In recent weeks, Selig has said that he has reconsidered his long-held opposition to relocating teams, and now believes relocation or closing teams may be necessary for some clubs in economic trouble.

The ailing franchises that are believed to be the most likely candidates for relocation, or for being bought out and closed -- a process that baseball calls "contraction" -- are Montreal, Tampa Bay, Florida (Miami) and Minnesota.

Orioles majority owner Peter Angelos has said a Washington team would cannibalize his fan base by drawing thousands of fans away every game.

"We have not seen the study and have no comment on it at this time," said Major League Baseball spokesman Rich Levin.

Since moving into the retro-style Camden Yards in 1992, the Orioles have been considered one of baseball's crown jewels, consistently selling out. This year, however, attendance has dropped by 16 percent, averaging 35,390 per game, according to Street & Smith's Sports Business Journal.

Malek's group would like to put a team in downtown Washington in, or near, Robert F. Kennedy Memorial Stadium, where the Washington Senators played before they departed after the 1971 season to become the Texas Rangers.

Bobby Goldwater, president of the D.C. Sports & Entertainment Commission, said he agreed with many of the studies' conclusions, but insisted that putting a stadium in the District would bring more economic impact.

"Most studies show that the best site for a baseball stadium and the economic impact that it brings is in a city, and Washington would be the most ideal city for Major League Baseball in the country," Goldwater said.

© 2001 The Washington Post Company

http://washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/art...2001May29.html

jpalexa · 05-31-2001, 12:47 AM

What arguments did Baltimore use to get the Ravens in the Redskins' backyard? Do the same issues apply?

bagger015 · 05-31-2001, 02:20 AM

Once a mistake,

Twice a fool,

Three times an idiot.

Can't see it working. although I agree that they
would probably draw better than the Expos.

05-01-2001, 07:11 AM	#3
BuzzBuzzard NetShrine's Conscience Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: The bowels of Shea Posts: 3,062	Two strikes and you're out, or something like that. __________________ Buzzard You Gotta Believe

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04-30-2001, 10:36 PM	#1
Shel NetShrine MVP Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Maryland Posts: 164	Just curious -- anyone think a MLB team will return to Washington DC anytime soon? Do you think DC should get another team?

04-30-2001, 10:47 PM	#2
NetShrine Administrator Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: NetShrine WHQ Posts: 4,617	They had two shots at it - - why would a third one end up any different?

05-01-2001, 10:56 AM	#4
95mph NetShrine Fan Favorite Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 96	With the president being such a baseball freak I don't doubt is he pushes for one. I think the more the merrier.

05-02-2001, 07:53 AM	#6
95mph NetShrine Fan Favorite Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 96	Well I can't figure out how to post pictures, but here are links to some pictures of Dubya. Maybe he's not a baseball freak, but you can tell he loves the sport. Did you see him throw the opening pitch for the Brewers(I think it was the Brewers)? http://www.georgewbush.com/bushchene...album/two.html http://www.georgewbush.com/bushchene...lbum/four.html http://www.georgewbush.com/bushchene...um/eleven.html

05-02-2001, 07:55 AM	#7
NetShrine Administrator Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: NetShrine WHQ Posts: 4,617	Thanks for the links 95!

05-02-2001, 10:17 AM	#8
Shel NetShrine MVP Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Maryland Posts: 164	And then there are those t-ball games on the White House lawn! I think DC deserves another chance at a MLB team (either in the District itself, or in Northern Virginia, which is one of the proposals). The demographics of the DC metro area have changed dramatically since the Senators left town 30 years ago. The population has increased, as have incomes, and I think the DC area would be able to support a team. Peter Asselos would, of course, scream bloody murder, claiming that a team in the DC area would harm the Orioles at the box office. Considering the mismanagement by the Orioles' front office -- most notably by Angeloser himself -- they're doing a darn good job at killing ticket sales all by themselves.

05-03-2001, 08:57 AM	#10
Shel NetShrine MVP Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Maryland Posts: 164	A few years ago, the Expos actually appeared to be on the verge of moving to DC. In fact, had they moved they'd have been playing at RFK Stadium this season (and next season too, I think), while a new stadium was being built. But the Expos' owner changed his mind at the very last minute...he got some kind of favorable vote from local politicians or something, to keep the Expos in Montreal. It was a major blow to the "Baseball in DC" movement. I'm hopeful that DC will get a MLB team someday. Not terribly optimistic about DC's chances for a team, but still hopeful nonetheless.

05-03-2001, 10:09 PM	#11
NetShrine Administrator Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: NetShrine WHQ Posts: 4,617	Hope springs eternal! Anyone remember the Woddy Allen bit about Hope and feathers? Gotta look for that.

05-03-2001, 10:14 PM	#12
NetShrine Administrator Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: NetShrine WHQ Posts: 4,617	Something like this: Emily Dickinson said, "Hope is the thing with feathers." Woody Allen said, "How wrong she was! The thing with feathers turns out to be my nephew. I must take him to a specialist in Zurich." (This from his book "Without Feathers.") Guess you had to be there?

05-30-2001, 11:57 PM	#13
Shel NetShrine MVP Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Maryland Posts: 164	The following article appeared in today's Washington Post. Considering the fact that the study mentioned in the article was funded by a group trying to bring baseball back to DC, I think the results should be taken with a grain of salt. I don't believe that the portion of the Orioles fan base coming from the DC area is as high as 25%, as the Orioles claim, but I also think that more than 13% of the O's fan base is from the DC area. I'm guessing that DC area fans make up about 18-20% of the Orioles fan base. And I think that there are more than enough fans in the Baltimore area to to support the Orioles. What a slap in the face it must be for Baltimore area fans to have the Orioles insinuate that they wouldn't be able to support their own team. Here's the article: Study: D.C. Area Team Won't Hurt The Orioles Baltimore Begs to Differ By Thomas Heath Washington Post Staff Writer Wednesday, May 30, 2001; Page D01 A group seeking to bring a Major League Baseball team to Northern Virginia will release a study today claiming 13 percent of Baltimore Orioles fans come from the Washington metro area, far less than the 25 percent or so that the Orioles have claimed in the past, according to a copy of the study. The $175,000 report, funded by the Virginia Baseball Stadium Authority and conducted last season through in-person interviews outside Orioles games and telephone interviews with Orioles fans, concludes that a Washington area baseball franchise would have very little impact on Orioles attendance. In addition to the in-person and telephone interviews, a third random telephone survey interviewed residents who do not attend Orioles games, according to the survey. "These findings contradict previous published statements from the Orioles that the Greater Washington metro area accounted for as much as one-third of their attendance," said the report, which was obtained by The Post yesterday. Orioles officials discounted the Virginia report, according to an Orioles spokesman. "They aren't the ones mailing out our season tickets, or filling out orders through TicketMaster, the telephone or the Internet," said Orioles spokesman Bill Stetka. "Our numbers show that fans from the Washington region are significantly higher than what the study reportedly says." The study was conducted by three groups, including the New York-based polling firm of Penn, Schoen and Berland Associates Inc., which has done research for Major League Baseball as well as several major Fortune 500 corporations, including Citibank, American Express and Procter & Gamble. The other members of the project team are Goal Group Consulting, L.L.C. of Chicago, and Kagan Media Appraisals Inc., a leading media research firm. The report states that of the 13 percent of Orioles fans who come from the Washington metro area, 8 percent live in Montgomery and Prince George's counties, 4 percent live in Northern Virginia and 1 percent reside in the District. The majority of Orioles fans, 58 percent, come from the Baltimore metropolitan area, according to the study. Another 7 percent come from Pennsylvania, 4 percent from New Jersey and the rest from various other states, including Delaware, New York and West Virginia. Last year the Orioles drew 3.3 million fans, which came to an average of just under 41,000 fans per game. If the report's numbers are correct, that means the Washington metro area contributes about 5,330 fans for each Orioles game. According to the report, a baseball team in Northern Virginia would have less impact on the Orioles than a team in the District. That's because more fans in Montgomery and Prince George's counties go to Camden Yards than those from the District or Northern Virginia, according to the report. Based on the report, then, a team in Northern Virginia would reduce attendance at Camden Yards by about 932 fans a game; a team in the District would cost the Orioles about 1,090 fans a game. The 121-page report goes on to say that Northern Virginia is more fertile territory for a Major League Baseball franchise than the District, estimating that more than 200,000 people in the metro area who do not attend baseball games would become at least occasional fans if a team were in Northern Virginia. By comparison, a team in the District would create 162,000 new fans from the metro area. A Northern Virginia investor group led by businessman William Collins has studied several locations for building a stadium, including both urban and suburban sites in Arlington and Fairfax counties. Washington businessman Fred Malek, who is leading an investor group that is trying to put a team in the District, said Northern Virginia is a viable market for a baseball team, but that Washington is better because of its central location. "If you went up in an airplane and looked at this area without thinking political boundaries and looked at the confluence of transportation, of jobs and people, you would put it right in the center, which happens to be in downtown Washington," Malek said. Officials at the Virginia Baseball Authority declined to comment on the study. They have scheduled a news conference for today. Commissioner Bud Selig could not be reached for comment. Selig has been reluctant to support the return of Major League Baseball to the Washington/Northern Virginia region, for among other reasons a concern it would have a negative impact on Orioles attendance. In recent weeks, Selig has said that he has reconsidered his long-held opposition to relocating teams, and now believes relocation or closing teams may be necessary for some clubs in economic trouble. The ailing franchises that are believed to be the most likely candidates for relocation, or for being bought out and closed -- a process that baseball calls "contraction" -- are Montreal, Tampa Bay, Florida (Miami) and Minnesota. Orioles majority owner Peter Angelos has said a Washington team would cannibalize his fan base by drawing thousands of fans away every game. "We have not seen the study and have no comment on it at this time," said Major League Baseball spokesman Rich Levin. Since moving into the retro-style Camden Yards in 1992, the Orioles have been considered one of baseball's crown jewels, consistently selling out. This year, however, attendance has dropped by 16 percent, averaging 35,390 per game, according to Street & Smith's Sports Business Journal. Malek's group would like to put a team in downtown Washington in, or near, Robert F. Kennedy Memorial Stadium, where the Washington Senators played before they departed after the 1971 season to become the Texas Rangers. Bobby Goldwater, president of the D.C. Sports & Entertainment Commission, said he agreed with many of the studies' conclusions, but insisted that putting a stadium in the District would bring more economic impact. "Most studies show that the best site for a baseball stadium and the economic impact that it brings is in a city, and Washington would be the most ideal city for Major League Baseball in the country," Goldwater said. © 2001 The Washington Post Company http://washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/art...2001May29.html

05-31-2001, 12:47 AM	#14
jpalexa Registered User Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 397	What arguments did Baltimore use to get the Ravens in the Redskins' backyard? Do the same issues apply?

05-31-2001, 02:20 AM	#15
bagger015 NetShrine Fan Favorite Join Date: May 2001 Location: Central Square, N.Y. Posts: 85	Once a mistake, Twice a fool, Three times an idiot. Can't see it working. although I agree that they would probably draw better than the Expos.

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