NDF 2003-04 Winter Fun - 1984 Award Winners – NL

WiredTiger · 12-17-2003, 11:27 AM

Still mixing it up a little bit and throwing in some modern years.

For the season referenced in the subject line of this thread, who would be your pick for Best Positional Player (Include defense and position played in your determination), Best Pitcher, Best First Year Player and any other topics of discussion from this season.

WiredTiger · 12-17-2003, 11:33 AM

Best Batter: Mike Schmidt
Ryne Sandberg may have helped his team win but Schmidt was the best player. He had the best OPS+ and he also won a gold glove. Sandberg finishes second.

Best Pitcher: Dwight Gooden
Rick Sutcliffe had an awesome year after coming over from the Indians. But Gooden was still better in my mind.

Best Rookie: Doc Gooden
No contest. Gooden was one of the best pitchers in the NL that year and may have been the best.

gyb13 · 12-17-2003, 12:32 PM

Top player (not just batter, but even if it was, he'd still win it) - Rock Raines. And it's not really close.

Top pitcher - This one is very close. I think Pena and Gooden are the top candidates. Pena had incredible results despite not striking anyone out. So I'll take Gooden.

Top rookie - Gooden

JamesI · 12-17-2003, 02:06 PM

Best Batter. Tim Raines
Best Pitcher and Best Rookie. Gooden.

sweaver · 12-17-2003, 05:42 PM

Here's the 1984 NL Win Shares leaders:

Sandberg 38, Gwynn 35, Murphy and Hernandez 33, Raines 32, Carter 30.

For pitchers, it's Sutter 23, Rhoden 20, Mahler, Soto, Hershiser, Pena, and Gooden all with 18.

WARP3 numbers have Sandberg at 11.9, Gwynn 9.5, Murphy 10.4, Hernandez 9.3, Raines 9.9, Carter 9.9 in his last Montreal year. Pitchers went Sutter 8.0, Rhoden 7.8, Mahler 6.5, Soto 5.6, Hershiser 6.2, Pena 5.2, Gooden 6.9.

No wonder we went ga-ga over Gooden, the state of NL pitching at the time was pretty sad.

The BBWAA MVP voting went like this: (source: baseball-reference.com)
1 Ryne Sandberg
2 Keith Hernandez
3 Tony Gwynn
4 Rick Sutcliffe
5 Gary Matthews
6 Bruce Sutter
7 Mike Schmidt
8 Jose Cruz
9 Dale Murphy
10 Jody Davis

Cy Young:
1 Rick Sutcliffe
2 Dwight Gooden
3 Bruce Sutter
4 Joaquin Andujar
5 Rich Gossage
6 Mario Soto

and Rookie:
1 Dwight Gooden
2 Juan Samuel
3 Orel Hershiser
4 Dan Gladden
5 Ron Darling
6 Carmelo Martinez
7 Terry Pendleton
7 Jeff Stone

Sutcliffe had 4.8 WARP3 points and 16 Win Shares for Chicago. Andujar had 17 Win Shares and a 6.3 WARP3. Gossage was 15 Win Shares and 4.7 WARP3.

My picks would be Sandberg for top player, Sutter for best pitcher (a reliever! Horrors! But he was clearly the best.) and Gooden for top rookie.

gyb13 · 12-18-2003, 01:29 AM

how the hell did raines not finish in the top 10 in mvp voting? man, was he underappreciated in his career..

sweaver · 12-18-2003, 07:41 AM

He didn't play for a lot of winners, and he was a leadoff man. Also not a rocket scientist, according to reports, and probably not a great interview.

gyb13 · 12-18-2003, 07:54 AM

i'll take a dumb guy with a .385 OBP any day of the week

sweaver · 12-18-2003, 11:59 AM

Me too, but the writers don't often vote for them. Of course, that's where we come in.

12-17-2003, 11:27 AM	#1
WiredTiger Guest Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: The city of Kaline, Cobb and Greenberg Posts: 3,395	NDF 2003-04 Winter Fun - 1984 Award Winners – NL Still mixing it up a little bit and throwing in some modern years. For the season referenced in the subject line of this thread, who would be your pick for Best Positional Player (Include defense and position played in your determination), Best Pitcher, Best First Year Player and any other topics of discussion from this season.

12-17-2003, 12:32 PM	#3
gyb13 NS Omnipresent Brasilian Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Crazy George's playground Posts: 10,903	Top player (not just batter, but even if it was, he'd still win it) - Rock Raines. And it's not really close. Top pitcher - This one is very close. I think Pena and Gooden are the top candidates. Pena had incredible results despite not striking anyone out. So I'll take Gooden. Top rookie - Gooden __________________ Gustavo NDF Moderator Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin

12-18-2003, 01:29 AM	#6
gyb13 NS Omnipresent Brasilian Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Crazy George's playground Posts: 10,903	how the hell did raines not finish in the top 10 in mvp voting? man, was he underappreciated in his career.. __________________ Gustavo NDF Moderator Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin

12-18-2003, 07:54 AM	#8
gyb13 NS Omnipresent Brasilian Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Crazy George's playground Posts: 10,903	i'll take a dumb guy with a .385 OBP any day of the week __________________ Gustavo NDF Moderator Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search
Display Modes	Rate This Thread
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode	Rate This Thread:

12-17-2003, 11:33 AM	#2
WiredTiger Guest Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: The city of Kaline, Cobb and Greenberg Posts: 3,395	Best Batter: Mike Schmidt Ryne Sandberg may have helped his team win but Schmidt was the best player. He had the best OPS+ and he also won a gold glove. Sandberg finishes second. Best Pitcher: Dwight Gooden Rick Sutcliffe had an awesome year after coming over from the Indians. But Gooden was still better in my mind. Best Rookie: Doc Gooden No contest. Gooden was one of the best pitchers in the NL that year and may have been the best.

12-17-2003, 02:06 PM	#4
JamesI Netshrine Vacuum Cleaner Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Potsdam, N.Y. Posts: 3,723	Best Batter. Tim Raines Best Pitcher and Best Rookie. Gooden.

12-17-2003, 05:42 PM	#5
sweaver Netshrine Cleanup Hitter Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Mountain State Posts: 8,883	Here's the 1984 NL Win Shares leaders: Sandberg 38, Gwynn 35, Murphy and Hernandez 33, Raines 32, Carter 30. For pitchers, it's Sutter 23, Rhoden 20, Mahler, Soto, Hershiser, Pena, and Gooden all with 18. WARP3 numbers have Sandberg at 11.9, Gwynn 9.5, Murphy 10.4, Hernandez 9.3, Raines 9.9, Carter 9.9 in his last Montreal year. Pitchers went Sutter 8.0, Rhoden 7.8, Mahler 6.5, Soto 5.6, Hershiser 6.2, Pena 5.2, Gooden 6.9. No wonder we went ga-ga over Gooden, the state of NL pitching at the time was pretty sad. The BBWAA MVP voting went like this: (source: baseball-reference.com) 1 Ryne Sandberg 2 Keith Hernandez 3 Tony Gwynn 4 Rick Sutcliffe 5 Gary Matthews 6 Bruce Sutter 7 Mike Schmidt 8 Jose Cruz 9 Dale Murphy 10 Jody Davis Cy Young: 1 Rick Sutcliffe 2 Dwight Gooden 3 Bruce Sutter 4 Joaquin Andujar 5 Rich Gossage 6 Mario Soto and Rookie: 1 Dwight Gooden 2 Juan Samuel 3 Orel Hershiser 4 Dan Gladden 5 Ron Darling 6 Carmelo Martinez 7 Terry Pendleton 7 Jeff Stone Sutcliffe had 4.8 WARP3 points and 16 Win Shares for Chicago. Andujar had 17 Win Shares and a 6.3 WARP3. Gossage was 15 Win Shares and 4.7 WARP3. My picks would be Sandberg for top player, Sutter for best pitcher (a reliever! Horrors! But he was clearly the best.) and Gooden for top rookie.

12-18-2003, 07:41 AM	#7
sweaver Netshrine Cleanup Hitter Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Mountain State Posts: 8,883	He didn't play for a lot of winners, and he was a leadoff man. Also not a rocket scientist, according to reports, and probably not a great interview.

12-18-2003, 11:59 AM	#9
sweaver Netshrine Cleanup Hitter Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Mountain State Posts: 8,883	Me too, but the writers don't often vote for them. Of course, that's where we come in.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
NDF 2003-04 Winter Fun - 1984 Award Winners - AL	WiredTiger	NDF 2003-04 Winter Fun - Season Award Winners	15	12-19-2003 07:55 AM
NDF 2003-04 Winter Fun - 1880 Award Winners	Wolf Hopper	NDF 2003-04 Winter Fun - Season Award Winners	8	12-12-2003 03:29 PM
NDF 2003-04 Winter Fun - 1879 Award Winners	Wolf Hopper	NDF 2003-04 Winter Fun - Season Award Winners	6	12-12-2003 03:25 PM
NDF 2003-04 Winter Fun - 1902 Award Winners - NL	Wolf Hopper	NDF 2003-04 Winter Fun - Season Award Winners	2	12-09-2003 11:11 AM
NDF 2003-04 Winter Fun - 1885 Award Winners	Wolf Hopper	NDF 2003-04 Winter Fun - Season Award Winners	5	11-11-2003 12:37 PM