Fleeing The Fifth

Wolf Hopper · 10-24-2003, 12:40 AM

See: http://www.netshrine.com/20031024.html

Discussion welcome and appreciated.

gyb13 · 10-24-2003, 12:57 AM

i think it's cool that you are making historical connections, but that it's a major quantum leap to project results based on what happened before

Wolf Hopper · 10-24-2003, 01:07 AM

Those who do not learn from history...........

Actually, I think history helps here - - in the pattern - - starter bombs in big game, you have to use pitchers that you didn't want to use - or didn't want to use that early or in that game - and now you're in a MUST WIN game with your staff all screwed up.

rcartman28 · 10-24-2003, 10:27 AM

While the odds may not favor New York, they do have Pettitte and Mussina pitching Games Six and Seven on normal rest and their bullpen ace having three days of rest, while it appears the Marlins will be using Beckett and Pavano, each pitching on three days rest.

As long as they don't have to use Weaver, they at least have a decent chance.

Wolf Hopper · 10-24-2003, 10:38 AM

Agreed - not impossible odds - - still, far from favorable.

KCBOOMER · 10-24-2003, 02:27 PM

The only thing a starter leaving a game early effects is the relievers you use up in their place. With a day off following Game Five that isn't that much of a factor.

In baseball momentum is today's starting pitcher. Pettitte and Mussina will have no problem with the Phish in YS.

Wolf Hopper · 10-24-2003, 08:37 PM

Agreed, but, you have to admit, the ratio of "Game 5 early exits" to "Lose overall series" is pretty darn close to 1:1.

Firpo Marberry · 10-25-2003, 02:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolf Hopper

Those who do not learn from history...........

Actually, I think history helps here - - in the pattern - - starter bombs in big game, you have to use pitchers that you didn't want to use - or didn't want to use that early or in that game - and now you're in a MUST WIN game with your staff all screwed up.

Except in '17, '23 and '46 pitching staffs and the way they were used were vastly different from today, so that mutes, or moots, much of this.

Those Game 5 boxes are interesting:

Russell in '17 made a suspiciously early exit: 0 IP. A walk and two base hits. Odd. Roger Clemens started out worse than that the other night and he wasn't pulled. Odder yet, this was the 1917 White Sox, some of whom -- including Russell -- wore uniforms for the 1919 Black Sox. Makes me wonder if ol' Pants Rowland thought Russell was trying to toss the game. Oddly, he was relieved by Cicotte and then Lefty Williams.

Or maybe Reb was just hurt. Was he one of those guys who wasn't into conditioning, like Wells? Did his ma date Hells Angels members? Someone let me know.

In '23, Bentley threw more than five innings in relief and three days later started. No manager would do that today.

Pollett went 10 innings in Game One in '46. Today, 90 percent of fans would say the reason he couldn't get into the second inning five days later was he was kept in too long in Game One. (A St. Lo hitting star in that Series: Joe Garagiola, whose .316 BA/.421 SA trailed only Harry Walker and Enos Slaughter. Also interesting to me, as he had a self-proclaimed rep as a automatic out, when Garagiola started at catcher he batted sixth; when Del Rice started, he batted eighth)

Wolf Hopper · 10-26-2003, 11:13 PM

Reb Russell could have been hurt? Looks like he missed 1/2 of the following season and was done after that.

10-24-2003, 12:40 AM	#1
Wolf Hopper NetShrine Creator & Curator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: NetShrine WHQ Posts: 6,191	Fleeing The Fifth See: http://www.netshrine.com/20031024.html Discussion welcome and appreciated. __________________ Steve, Forum Administrator POSTING TIP FOR THE DAY: When composing a post, think about what you would say if the intended recipient was an individual who was actually sitting just two feet in front of you, in person, rather than just some far away and anonymous audience who only can identify you as text on a PC screen - - and then write your post in that manner. It makes for remarkable and sincere discourse.

10-24-2003, 12:57 AM	#2
gyb13 NS Omnipresent Brasilian Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Crazy George's playground Posts: 10,903	i think it's cool that you are making historical connections, but that it's a major quantum leap to project results based on what happened before __________________ Gustavo NDF Moderator Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin

10-24-2003, 01:07 AM	#3
Wolf Hopper NetShrine Creator & Curator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: NetShrine WHQ Posts: 6,191	Those who do not learn from history........... Actually, I think history helps here - - in the pattern - - starter bombs in big game, you have to use pitchers that you didn't want to use - or didn't want to use that early or in that game - and now you're in a MUST WIN game with your staff all screwed up. __________________ Steve, Forum Administrator POSTING TIP FOR THE DAY: When composing a post, think about what you would say if the intended recipient was an individual who was actually sitting just two feet in front of you, in person, rather than just some far away and anonymous audience who only can identify you as text on a PC screen - - and then write your post in that manner. It makes for remarkable and sincere discourse.

10-24-2003, 10:27 AM	#4
rcartman28 NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Hudson, WI Posts: 1,408	While the odds may not favor New York, they do have Pettitte and Mussina pitching Games Six and Seven on normal rest and their bullpen ace having three days of rest, while it appears the Marlins will be using Beckett and Pavano, each pitching on three days rest. As long as they don't have to use Weaver, they at least have a decent chance. __________________ I would have looked out for the water main. But that's just me..... Brett Favre

10-24-2003, 10:38 AM	#5
Wolf Hopper NetShrine Creator & Curator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: NetShrine WHQ Posts: 6,191	Agreed - not impossible odds - - still, far from favorable. __________________ Steve, Forum Administrator POSTING TIP FOR THE DAY: When composing a post, think about what you would say if the intended recipient was an individual who was actually sitting just two feet in front of you, in person, rather than just some far away and anonymous audience who only can identify you as text on a PC screen - - and then write your post in that manner. It makes for remarkable and sincere discourse.

10-24-2003, 02:27 PM	#6
KCBOOMER NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Home of the T-Bones Posts: 11,116	The only thing a starter leaving a game early effects is the relievers you use up in their place. With a day off following Game Five that isn't that much of a factor. In baseball momentum is today's starting pitcher. Pettitte and Mussina will have no problem with the Phish in YS. __________________ KCBOOMER *Buck O'Neil: The Monarch of Baseball*

10-24-2003, 08:37 PM	#7
Wolf Hopper NetShrine Creator & Curator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: NetShrine WHQ Posts: 6,191	Agreed, but, you have to admit, the ratio of "Game 5 early exits" to "Lose overall series" is pretty darn close to 1:1. __________________ Steve, Forum Administrator POSTING TIP FOR THE DAY: When composing a post, think about what you would say if the intended recipient was an individual who was actually sitting just two feet in front of you, in person, rather than just some far away and anonymous audience who only can identify you as text on a PC screen - - and then write your post in that manner. It makes for remarkable and sincere discourse.

10-26-2003, 11:13 PM	#9
Wolf Hopper NetShrine Creator & Curator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: NetShrine WHQ Posts: 6,191	Reb Russell could have been hurt? Looks like he missed 1/2 of the following season and was done after that. __________________ Steve, Forum Administrator POSTING TIP FOR THE DAY: When composing a post, think about what you would say if the intended recipient was an individual who was actually sitting just two feet in front of you, in person, rather than just some far away and anonymous audience who only can identify you as text on a PC screen - - and then write your post in that manner. It makes for remarkable and sincere discourse.

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