Worst Apple Ever In A Otherwise Great Barrel

Wolf Hopper · 09-23-2003, 06:34 AM

Last night, for about 20 minutes, as I waited for the bomb that Jeff Weaver surrendered to Magglio Ordonez to land, I began to think back to this feature that I did for NetShrine: http://www.netshrine.com/conebag.html

And, I thought - for any team that has won 95 or more games in a given season, what pitcher was the worst of all-time? Could it be Weaver's 2003?

What I mean is - which pitcher authored the worst ever performance - in significant playing time - on a team that otherwise did extremely well (95+ wins that year)?

How good would that team's record have been if the pitcher had been at least average?

Would like to hear who you would pick..........

Wolf Hopper · 09-23-2003, 06:49 AM

Just noticed Jack Morris in 1993. He was Weaverish that year.

Did not see many others on 95+ winners in the last 30 years that would match Jack and Jeff. But, I only looked quick.

gyb13 · 09-23-2003, 11:45 AM

2003 Weaver (97-59 NYY), -27 RSAA
1993 Morris (95-67 TOR), -28 RSAA

I checked all pitchers, -35 RSAA and worst since 1900

the only other good one i could find:
2001 Andy Benes (93-69 STL), -37 RSAA

Wolf Hopper · 09-23-2003, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gyb13

2003 Weaver (97-59 NYY), -27 RSAA
1993 Morris (95-67 TOR), -28 RSAA

I checked all pitchers, -35 RSAA and worst since 1900

the only other good one i could find:
2001 Andy Benes (93-69 STL), -37 RSAA

Nice work. Benes misses based on the 95 wins cut off.

With last night's bomb, Weaver may have passed Morris.

JamesI · 09-23-2003, 11:53 AM

How about Dennis MArtinez 1983?

gyb13 · 09-23-2003, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolf Hopper

Nice work. Benes misses based on the 95 wins cut off.

true, though you know how i feel about arbitrary cutoffs.

1983 Martinez (98-64 BAL), -25 RSAA

Fuzzy Bear · 09-25-2003, 07:08 PM

Allan Anderson looked pretty bad for the 1991 Twins, although he only pitched 134 innings.

Ytown Tribe fan · 09-25-2003, 07:15 PM

Herb Pennock had an ERA+ of 89 in 135 IP (and a 9-5 record) for the '32 Yanks.

gyb13 · 09-26-2003, 12:26 AM

1991 Anderson (95-67 MIN), -13 RSAA
1932 Pennock (107-47 NYY), -8 RSAA

09-29-2003, 10:46 PM

What about Shawn Estes from this year? I think he should be mentioned (I know the Cubs didn't win 95, but they did win 88, not too shabby, and 95 is arbitrary -- maybe a better number could be established, like 1.5 or 2 std. deviations from league mean?):

Code:

Player		VORP	RSAA	
-----------------------------	
Prior		64.1	42	
Wood		53.7	24	
Zambrano	44.3	26	
Clement		24.4	3	
Estes		-19.8	-26

What do you guys think? He probably wouldn't show up nearly this bad if Baker didn't send him out there so much, all year long. What kind of team would the Cubs have been if Baker had been smart with pitch counts for the young guys, not used Estes, and not run his young talent out of town so he can start "veterans" (i.e. Karros over Hee Seop Choi, getting rid of Bellhorn)? Boggles my mind.

gyb13 · 09-29-2003, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gyb13

2003 Weaver (97-59 NYY), -27 RSAA

for the record, he finished at -29 RSAA for the 101-61 NYY

BravesWin! · 10-02-2003, 09:22 PM

Where would you place Albie Lopez of the 2002 Braves?

-andrew

Ytown Tribe fan · 10-02-2003, 09:45 PM

Jason Marquis might have been worse. He pitched twice as many innings as Albie with an ERA over 5.00.

gyb13 · 10-03-2003, 12:39 PM

Lopez was actually about average....Marquis was bad, but not as terrible as the other guys previously mentioned:

2002 Lopez (101-59 ATL), -1 RSAA
2002 Marquis (101-59 ATL), -12 RSAA

09-23-2003, 06:34 AM	#1
Wolf Hopper NetShrine Creator & Curator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: NetShrine WHQ Posts: 6,191	Worst Apple Ever In A Otherwise Great Barrel Last night, for about 20 minutes, as I waited for the bomb that Jeff Weaver surrendered to Magglio Ordonez to land, I began to think back to this feature that I did for NetShrine: http://www.netshrine.com/conebag.html And, I thought - for any team that has won 95 or more games in a given season, what pitcher was the worst of all-time? Could it be Weaver's 2003? What I mean is - which pitcher authored the worst ever performance - in significant playing time - on a team that otherwise did extremely well (95+ wins that year)? How good would that team's record have been if the pitcher had been at least average? Would like to hear who you would pick.......... __________________ Steve, Forum Administrator POSTING TIP FOR THE DAY: When composing a post, think about what you would say if the intended recipient was an individual who was actually sitting just two feet in front of you, in person, rather than just some far away and anonymous audience who only can identify you as text on a PC screen - - and then write your post in that manner. It makes for remarkable and sincere discourse.

09-23-2003, 06:49 AM	#2
Wolf Hopper NetShrine Creator & Curator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: NetShrine WHQ Posts: 6,191	Just noticed Jack Morris in 1993. He was Weaverish that year. Did not see many others on 95+ winners in the last 30 years that would match Jack and Jeff. But, I only looked quick. __________________ Steve, Forum Administrator POSTING TIP FOR THE DAY: When composing a post, think about what you would say if the intended recipient was an individual who was actually sitting just two feet in front of you, in person, rather than just some far away and anonymous audience who only can identify you as text on a PC screen - - and then write your post in that manner. It makes for remarkable and sincere discourse.

09-23-2003, 11:45 AM	#3
gyb13 NS Omnipresent Brasilian Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Crazy George's playground Posts: 10,903	2003 Weaver (97-59 NYY), -27 RSAA 1993 Morris (95-67 TOR), -28 RSAA I checked all pitchers, -35 RSAA and worst since 1900 the only other good one i could find: 2001 Andy Benes (93-69 STL), -37 RSAA __________________ Gustavo NDF Moderator Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin

09-26-2003, 12:26 AM	#9
gyb13 NS Omnipresent Brasilian Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Crazy George's playground Posts: 10,903	these guys weren't so bad 1991 Anderson (95-67 MIN), -13 RSAA 1932 Pennock (107-47 NYY), -8 RSAA __________________ Gustavo NDF Moderator Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin

09-29-2003, 10:46 PM	#10
o2bnited Posts: n/a	Shawn Estes 2003 What about Shawn Estes from this year? I think he should be mentioned (I know the Cubs didn't win 95, but they did win 88, not too shabby, and 95 is arbitrary -- maybe a better number could be established, like 1.5 or 2 std. deviations from league mean?): Code: Player VORP RSAA ----------------------------- Prior 64.1 42 Wood 53.7 24 Zambrano 44.3 26 Clement 24.4 3 Estes -19.8 -26 What do you guys think? He probably wouldn't show up nearly this bad if Baker didn't send him out there so much, all year long. What kind of team would the Cubs have been if Baker had been smart with pitch counts for the young guys, not used Estes, and not run his young talent out of town so he can start "veterans" (i.e. Karros over Hee Seop Choi, getting rid of Bellhorn)? Boggles my mind. Last edited by o2bnited : 09-29-2003 at 10:49 PM.

09-23-2003, 11:53 AM	#5
JamesI Netshrine Vacuum Cleaner Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Potsdam, N.Y. Posts: 3,723	How about Dennis MArtinez 1983?

09-25-2003, 07:08 PM	#7
Fuzzy Bear NetShrine's Evangelist Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Living by faith, and not by sight! Posts: 2,194	Allan Anderson looked pretty bad for the 1991 Twins, although he only pitched 134 innings.

09-25-2003, 07:15 PM	#8
Ytown Tribe fan Guest Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Scrappers territory Posts: 2,515	Herb Pennock had an ERA+ of 89 in 135 IP (and a 9-5 record) for the '32 Yanks.

10-02-2003, 09:22 PM	#12
BravesWin! All-NetShrine Team Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Atlanta Posts: 392	Where would you place Albie Lopez of the 2002 Braves? -andrew

10-02-2003, 09:45 PM	#13
Ytown Tribe fan Guest Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Scrappers territory Posts: 2,515	Jason Marquis might have been worse. He pitched twice as many innings as Albie with an ERA over 5.00.

10-03-2003, 12:39 PM	#14
gyb13 NS Omnipresent Brasilian Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Crazy George's playground Posts: 10,903	Lopez was actually about average....Marquis was bad, but not as terrible as the other guys previously mentioned: 2002 Lopez (101-59 ATL), -1 RSAA 2002 Marquis (101-59 ATL), -12 RSAA __________________ Gustavo NDF Moderator Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search
Display Modes	Rate This Thread
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode	Rate This Thread:

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
The worst baseball books you've read	Doc Pontoon	Baseball Library	11	02-12-2003 04:29 PM
Offseason stat package--Worst RCAP	nyy26wc	Around The Majors Reports	4	12-07-2002 01:05 PM
Alabama Athletes in Professional Sports	HistoryMajor46	The Elephant Graveyard	0	08-17-2002 11:43 PM
Worst HOFers -- BBWAA	Baudib	2002 Baseball History Archives	20	03-12-2002 10:01 AM
Worst HOFers -- VC	Baudib	2002 Baseball History Archives	29	03-05-2002 09:26 PM