Ted Williams 1941-1946

[Ytown Tribe fan]

Okay -- one person says that losing three years to military service is the same as quitting the company you are working for and joining another company, then going back to your old company -- and therefore, Ted Williams 1941, 1942 and 1946 seasons should not be considered "consecutive".

I can not tell you how offensive I find that conceit on a family-oriented forum. It is a slap in the face to every person who ever raised a hand to defend this fine nation.

Ted Williams did NOT "quit" major league baseball and join another "company" for three years. He was fighting for the survival of this fine nation (and major league baseball) in the face of an opponent who wanted to destroy it. He was a hero and he received a hero's welcome when he resumed his playing career in 1946, as he should have.

What do you think? Is there anyone else here who agrees that Ted Williams '41, '42, and '46 seasons should be considered "consecutive"?

[Wolf Hopper]

BTW, being the "one person" - I have to add on - - by no way and I slapping those who have defended our country.

More so, what I am saying is: He played a game for two years, went on to do something entirely different (and more important!) for another three, and then went back to playing a game. It is false, IMO, to then say he played a game for three years in a row when there was a break of 3 years to "work" at something else (and more more important).

[Firpo Marberry]

Originally Posted by Ytown Tribe fan

Okay -- one person says that losing three years to military service is the same as quitting the company you are working for and joining another company, then going back to your old company -- and therefore, Ted Williams 1941, 1942 and 1946 seasons should not be considered "consecutive".

I can not tell you how offensive I find that conceit on a family-oriented forum. It is a slap in the face to "

I see no correlation between the two.

Are you a veteran of the armed forces?

[Jim Rice]

I'm an enormous fan of the Red Sox, Ted Williams, and our nation's military, but I don't think it's improper at all to say that Williams' 1941, 1942 and 1946 season were NOT consecutive. They weren't. While I would love to know what Williams' 1943-45 years would have looked liked, because A.) it would have meant the war was over, and B.) it would have ended a few decades of speculation, the reality is that he was gone for that time. I don't think Wolf or anyone else is arguing that the reason Ted was gone was clearly more vital than playing baseball, or that he shouldn't be greatly admired for going, but he did, in fact, go.

Ted himself was always extremely proud of his service in that war and Korea, and he seemed to have accepted the fact that those lost seasons were gone and could never be recovered, so that's the approach I take too. Besides, it's not like his reputation as a player or as a man suffered by missing those years. If anything, his legend is a bit larger because of it. He has already received far more accolades for serving in that war than we could bestow upon him in this space by calling his '41-'46 seasons consecutive and judging him accordingly.

[sweaver]

For the purposes of records such as the one set forth, OPS or runs created or RCAA over three consecutive seasons, I do not consider Williams' 1942 and 1946 consecutive. When considering and evaluating Teddy Ballgame's career, as I do for one of my own research projects, I do consider them consecutive. When I total value to account for peak, I use a score for top four consecutive seasons, and I use seasons interrupted for military service as consecutive.

I also only extrapolate lost performance for two reasons: military service or segregation.

[KCBOOMER]

Usually when I see people trying to use circuitous logic to eliminate a player from consideration for something I immediately suspect an agenda. It may be nothing more than a statistical convenience (it is a pain in the chops to compensate for people who missed time in the WWi, WWII, or Korea) or it may be to advance the stature of a player they like.

[Wolf Hopper]

Originally Posted by KCBOOMER

Usually when I see people trying to use circuitous logic to eliminate a player from consideration for something I immediately suspect an agenda. It may be nothing more than a statistical convenience (it is a pain in the chops to compensate for people who missed time in the WWi, WWII, or Korea) or it may be to advance the stature of a player they like.

Could not the same be said for those lobbying to include a player into consideration - that they are attempting the stature of a player they like?

Bridge goes both ways Boomer.

[Skip]

Seems to me to be quibbling over words. 41, 42, and 46 were consecutive seasons for TW, even if they weren't for others. 41, 42, and 46 were not consecutive (calendar) years. If you wish to analyze a 3 calendar year period, TW is out. If you wish to analyze someone's best three seasons in a row, TW is in. IMO.

[nyy26wc]

Since we are talking about baseball accomplishments, Ted Williams did absolutely nothing, baseballwise, in 1943. Nothing he could have done, in literally any other area of human existence, changes that fact.

Military service might be the reason why Williams didn't play. But, the fact that it is a reason why further establishes the undeniable fact that he didn't play.

[Wolf Hopper]

Originally Posted by Skip

If you wish to analyze a 3 calendar year period, TW is out. If you wish to analyze someone's best three seasons in a row, TW is in. IMO.

Dead, solid, perfect - IMHO.

I think that this is somewhat loosely related to a comment I made a thread or two ago about how Bonds is about to complete his 3rd year with OBA 150pts above league average. I made a comment to the effect that if Williams' playing career lines read sequentially from 42 to 46, why couldn't we consider that consecutive seasons for him.
It seems, after reading many of the posts on this thread, that many people consider these consecutive for analysis, even though they are clearly separate calendar years.
I, of course, am in favor of considering them consecutive because of the nature of his break from the game.
I am also thinking that, further, it is a great testament to his ability (even if we can't really measure this, we could at least appreciate it) that he was able to return after taking such a break and still perform at such a high level. It is amazing to me, at least.

[JamesI]

Is it Williams fault he didn't play baseball though? He didn't quit baseball to join the Navy. He had to go because of a war.

[gyb13]

it's a similar discussion to whether the braves' run of consecutive dominance in the NL East has been since 1991 or since 1995

[huskerdru]

Originally Posted by Ytown Tribe fan

Ted Williams did NOT "quit" major league baseball and join another "company" for three years. He was fighting for the survival of this fine nation (and major league baseball) in the face of an opponent who wanted to destroy it. He was a hero and he received a hero's welcome when he resumed his playing career in 1946, as he should have.

This is all a bit academic, isn't it?? Whether we consider them to be consecutive years or not doesn't change the fact that The Splinter missed those seasons. I'd be inclined to call them "consecutive," though I'm not sure what difference it really makes.

It's interesting, though, how the general view of TW's military service has changed over the years. We look back on him as a hero who proudly served his country (and flew with John Glenn!!), which he was. We ALSO however (not everyone, I know, so please don't be upset if this isn't your view) tend to view his enlistment as something he was ready and eager to do as soon as possible. Of course, it wasn't...TW received a lot of pressure and criticism for waiting as long as he did to enlist, and continued to receive it for a bit afterward. Well, he did ultimately enlist, and the rest, as they say, is history...

[SHOELESSJOE3]

Only one way to look at it, as another poster put it. Did Williams accomplish this feat for 3 consecutive calendar years, no. Was there a period of 3 consecutive playing seasons when he accomplished this feat, yes.