Who Should Win The AL Cy Young?

[mainsr]

The voters will undoubtedly pick Clemens, proving that they are stupid. Oh wait, Skip says we have to make nice - proving that they are overly impressed by W-L.

For whom would you vote? I'm having a really hard time choosing between Mussina and Garcia. I guess Mussina, since Garcia pitches in a more favorable park.

Remember, ABC: Anybody But Clemens.

[Skipper Steve]

What's your vote? If "other" - please let us know who. Thanks!

[Skipper Steve]

When it's all said and done, Clemens may just have a great argument for "Greatest Pitcher of All-Time" (not yet, but another 30-40 wins and 300-400 Ks may seal the deal).

So, given his place in the game, and the fact that he did have a marvelous 2001, I give him a seed in the final race on this one.

The other horse has to come from the Mussina, Buehrle, and Mays group - - - since, IMHO, their across the line stats (as a whole) are slightly better than the Moyers, Garcias, Hudsons, Mulders, etc.

From this group, I would pick Mussina.

Mussina v. Clemens - - - sort of like the NL, with two teammates going against each other. Now, in that race, the guy with the better numbers and the lesser wins got the Award. So, using that logic, Mussina has to get it.

But, the reporters don't like Mussina, so he may not get some votes. Wait, I forgot, this is who I would pick. (Besides, Moose and Rocket may end up splitting votes and then someone like Garcia will sneak in and get the award.)

For many, the knock on Clemens was that he got big run support - - well, he did. But, being a smart pitcher, I think he often pitched to the score, and therefore may have given up a few more hits and runs because he could afford to do so - - not because his stuff wasn't there. In a close game, he kept the score close. So, I think the fact he went 20-3 had much more to do with him than the run support (than people claim). That win-loss record is hard to ignore. I'm giving the Rocket his 6th.

[nightal]

Clemens will win, but if you want to see why he shouldn't, read Rob Neyer's column on ESPN.com.

[Golden Bear]

The problem is, it's hard to make an argument for any one guy other than Clemens, because there's little to distinguish them from each other...no one had a season that sets them apart from the pack.

Usually when this happens, the voters gravitate to the guy with the highest win total, but this year Clemens caught their attention with 20-1 in New York, plus the luster of his career accomplishments (getting to #3 on the K list, approaching 300 wins, etc.).

Based on the win-total precedent, I'd sort of lean toward Mulder, just to not change the rules while the game is being played. Plus I saw him all season; the pct. stats are deceiving, because he really was a better pitcher than Hudson this year for the A's.

That being said, I don't have as big a problem with Rocket winning as most, because there's no one guy being screwed; there's kind of a pack of 5 or 6 who all had marginally better season w/o the gaudy W-L record. Something has to break the tie; why not that?

[nightal]

Isn't it sad when two deserving candidates are in the same league, and there is no tremendous candidate in the other league. This has been seen several times over the years in Cy Young voting & probably in MVP voting. Lee Sinins could probably find examples of this.

[bookwoman]

***No one is really outstanding (to me) but based on the choices I'd go with Mussina. I'd rather see anybody but (yawn) Clemens. It's a case of "been there, done that" too many times. JB

[Duque]

I think Mussina deserves it, but won't win it. I'm sure Clemens will - and the fact that he should already have 6 Cy Youngs (he got shafted back in 1990 in favor of the far less deserving Bob Welch) makes his winning this year a lot more tolerable. Especially in a field where no one really stands out.

[mainsr]

Originally posted by Golden Bear
The problem is, it's hard to make an argument for any one guy other than Clemens, because there's little to distinguish them from each other...no one had a season that sets them apart from the pack.

That's true, but Clemens would be the WORST choice, in my book. Nightal is correct - Neyer says it better than I do - but his season really wasn't all that exceptional EXCEPT for the W-L, and that was a product of run support and getting 11 wins against TB, BAL, TOR, and DET. He had a Bob Welch '90 season. (Except, of course, he's a much better pitcher than Welch.)

Skip - "pitched to the score?" This is, I assume, a corollary to "knowing how to win." The question, of course, is why he "pitched to the score" this year but not in his last year in Boston - nearly identical ERAs (3.63 '96, 3.51 '01), but very different W-L (10-13 '96, 20-3 '01).

[TGwynn19]

The goal of playing a baseball game is to win it and Clemens gave his team the best chance of acheiving that goal everytime he took the mound. Sure he got a ton of run support but the fact remains that he lost 3 games all season. I see all the pitchers having roughly equal seasons so I don't see how you can't give the nod to the guy who lost 3 games!!

[Skipper Steve]

Originally posted by mainsr
Skip - "pitched to the score?" This is, I assume, a corollary to "knowing how to win." The question, of course, is why he "pitched to the score" this year but not in his last year in Boston - nearly identical ERAs (3.63 '96, 3.51 '01), but very different W-L (10-13 '96, 20-3 '01).

It's not really "knowing how to win" - - it's "knowing your cushion."

No need to pitch a batter like it each AB is the game - - if you have a 5 run lead, you throw a fastball and go with the odds (50-70% of the time, it should be hit into an out) - - - but, when you do throw fastballs for strikes often you will give up a hit that you wouldn't if you were pitching like the game was on the line. It's those cushion hits and runs that Clemens is now being punished for - - when, IMHO, people should be giving him credit for pitching smart.

[Skipper Steve]

Originally posted by mainsr
(Clemens') season really wasn't all that exceptional EXCEPT for the W-L, and that was a product of run support

The run support numbers are misleading too:

In four games combined, the Yanks scored FIFTY runs when Clemens started - - take the 50 out of his run support and 4 off his GS total and then figure out what his Run Support was in his remaining starts - - probably about average.

BTW, in those four starts, he did win all four - but, the scores were 16-5 (4/8), 12-5 (5/26), 10-1 (6/18) and 12-1 (7/28). So, did the runs even matter in two of those games - - he would have won even if the Yanks had only scored 4 runs in those games.

Also, Clemens' won games this season by the scores of 3-1, 2-0, 4-0, 2-1, 4-3, and 3-1 - - that's six games, all wins for him, with average to little run support.

In fact, almost half of Clemens' wins (7) came when the Yankees scored 5 runs or less.

[nightal]

What are Mussina, Mays etc. records when they get little support? If people are going to do these little checks for one cadidate, please offer alternatives pro or con.

[Skipper Steve]

Originally posted by nightal
What are Mussina, Mays etc. records when they get little support? If people are going to do these little checks for one cadidate, please offer alternatives pro or con.

Dunno. You can find them on ESPN.com - MLB - Players - Game Logs.

[mainsr]

Originally posted by Skipper Steve


Dunno. You can find them on ESPN.com - MLB - Players - Game Logs.

I am convinced that you don't know how to do math. Not taking the bait - too much work to do today.