Crazy Idea - Wild Card/Free Passes

Wolf Hopper · 07-22-2003, 11:10 PM

What if, instead of allowing the 4th team in the playoffs like we have now, instead, the defending league champ from the prior season was granted the Wild Card slot - - and, if they were already in first place (and therefore could not be the wild card), instead of being the card, they get a "by" and a free pass to the next round of the playoffs.

This make sense? Does it work?
Is it better or worse than what we have now? Make things more interesting?

sweaver · 07-22-2003, 11:14 PM

I like it, but the TV executives would never go for it.

Wolf Hopper · 07-22-2003, 11:17 PM

True - a by kills them.

Skip · 07-22-2003, 11:22 PM

Wouldn't like it.

In the NBA or other leagues where a ton of teams go to the playoffs each year, having the defending champ as an autopick might be cool. You only lose some other team that is barely .500 anyway. But baseball basically only allows the top quartile in and it'd be too easy to result in cases where worthy wildcards are lost. Earning a baseball playoff spot is still pretty precious, so I'd hate to see something willy-nilly like this put in place that might hit team A one year but miss team B the next.

sweaver · 07-22-2003, 11:44 PM

"Worthy wildcard" is something of an oxymoron.

As opposed to me, I am a specific moron.

Skip · 07-23-2003, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweaver

"Worthy wildcard" is something of an oxymoron.

I'm pretty sure I get your drift, but assuming a wildcard existed teams like the 2001 A's and 1993 Giants would be "worthy wildcards". These are two recent teams that clearly outclassed the winners of other divisions in their leagues.

As to your second point ... I think we all know that by now!

WiredTiger · 07-23-2003, 08:42 AM

Teams change so much from year to year that I don't think this would be a great idea. Why reward a team for what they did last year? The Angels don't deserve to make this year's playoffs.

TGwynn19 · 07-23-2003, 08:54 AM

I couldn't imagine giving the 1998 Marlins a free playoff berth.

TimmyB · 07-23-2003, 09:11 AM

No way, no how.

Besides letting in teams like the '98 Marlins (which may have been a team like no other), you'd also get the '99 Padres. Blecch!

Further, think of how it could have affected other great pennant races. Think the Yankees/Red Sox of '78 would have been so exciting? The Yankees would have known they were a lock. No riveting comeback. No Red Sox comeback. No playoff. No Bucky Dent. (Hmm... on second thought... no... wait... no... I'm sticking by my guns.)

It's bad enough that some other sports with their oversized playoffs let in teams that really don't belong there. Baseball should not join that trend.

Of course, not all teams will be the '98 Marlins et. al. Some, maybe most, will be really good teams. If that's the case, the have 162 games in which to prove it.

sweaver · 07-23-2003, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TGwynn19

I couldn't imagine giving the 1998 Marlins a free playoff berth.

Well, first they have to win the division. Then, they could get a first-round bye.

It's an interesting idea, but it wouldn't work in practice. Kind of like letting the league that wins the All-Star Game have home-field advantage in the World Series.

Wait.............

satchel · 07-23-2003, 09:17 AM

Timmy B gets close to my big problem with this idea. It's not so much that "worthy" teams might get locked out of the playoffs - in baseball, that happens anyhow, and that's the fun of the race.

My problem with it is that a team which knows from day 1 that it will make the playoffs - regardless of whether it loses 100 games - is not going to be playing the same game as the rest of the league. (This is different from teams that "know" they'll be making the playoffs because they are good or because they've built a huge lead in their division - they still have to win the games, because if they drop 20 in a row they can lose their spot.)

Making the playoffs in baseball is, in part, a reward for having the depth to make it through a 162 game grind. We've talked a lot here about how it's one thing to build a team that can win 95-100 games out of 162, and a somehwat different team that can win 3 out of 5 and 4 out of 7. If you know from day 1 that you'll be there on day 180, regardless of what happens in between, you get a real advantage in building that playoff-specialized team.

rcartman28 · 07-23-2003, 11:13 AM

Interesting, but I think the team should earn its playoff spot instead of coasting thru the season setting the team up for playoffs. The idea didn't work too well in 1981, either, giving "first-half" winners automatic playoff spots.

Wolf Hopper · 07-23-2003, 11:22 AM

Agreed, having the team "know" going into the season that they have made the playoffs is a bad side of this - - as 1981 did show us.

Maybe tweak it so that the Wild Card, in this case the defending champ, has an uphill battle - - and then that would be incentive to win the DIV and go for the "by."

What's uphill enough?

Wild Card has to play all post-season games before the WS on the road? Make it single elimination for the WC team - lose one game and you're out? Any ideas? I'm just thinking out loud with all this stuff.......

rcartman28 · 07-23-2003, 11:27 AM

The idea that I have heard that I like the most, suggested by, I believe, Steve Hirdt, is to add a second wild card team and have the two wild cards play each other in a single game where the winner moves in the playoffs. This would have the effect that the wild card team has a disadvantage in the pitching rotation (e.g., Boston couldn't use Pedro in games 1 and 4 or 5) because they would have to use their best pitcher to win the single playoff game against the other wild card team.

Wolf Hopper · 07-23-2003, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rcartman28

The idea that I have heard that I like the most, suggested by, I believe, Steve Hirdt, is to add a second wild card team and have the two wild cards play each other in a single game where the winner moves in the playoffs. This would have the effect that the wild card team has a disadvantage in the pitching rotation (e.g., Boston couldn't use Pedro in games 1 and 4 or 5) because they would have to use their best pitcher to win the single playoff game against the other wild card team.

So, maybe keep the format now "as is" and let the defending champ play the "real" WC in a one game playoff? That would be cool with me - - and the networks would love it too.

07-22-2003, 11:10 PM	#1
Wolf Hopper NetShrine Creator & Curator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: NetShrine WHQ Posts: 6,191	Crazy Idea - Wild Card/Free Passes What if, instead of allowing the 4th team in the playoffs like we have now, instead, the defending league champ from the prior season was granted the Wild Card slot - - and, if they were already in first place (and therefore could not be the wild card), instead of being the card, they get a "by" and a free pass to the next round of the playoffs. This make sense? Does it work? Is it better or worse than what we have now? Make things more interesting? __________________ Steve, Forum Administrator POSTING TIP FOR THE DAY: When composing a post, think about what you would say if the intended recipient was an individual who was actually sitting just two feet in front of you, in person, rather than just some far away and anonymous audience who only can identify you as text on a PC screen - - and then write your post in that manner. It makes for remarkable and sincere discourse.

07-22-2003, 11:17 PM	#3
Wolf Hopper NetShrine Creator & Curator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: NetShrine WHQ Posts: 6,191	True - a by kills them. __________________ Steve, Forum Administrator POSTING TIP FOR THE DAY: When composing a post, think about what you would say if the intended recipient was an individual who was actually sitting just two feet in front of you, in person, rather than just some far away and anonymous audience who only can identify you as text on a PC screen - - and then write your post in that manner. It makes for remarkable and sincere discourse.

07-23-2003, 09:17 AM	#11
satchel NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 2,601	Timmy B gets close to my big problem with this idea. It's not so much that "worthy" teams might get locked out of the playoffs - in baseball, that happens anyhow, and that's the fun of the race. My problem with it is that a team which knows from day 1 that it will make the playoffs - regardless of whether it loses 100 games - is not going to be playing the same game as the rest of the league. (This is different from teams that "know" they'll be making the playoffs because they are good or because they've built a huge lead in their division - they still have to win the games, because if they drop 20 in a row they can lose their spot.) Making the playoffs in baseball is, in part, a reward for having the depth to make it through a 162 game grind. We've talked a lot here about how it's one thing to build a team that can win 95-100 games out of 162, and a somehwat different team that can win 3 out of 5 and 4 out of 7. If you know from day 1 that you'll be there on day 180, regardless of what happens in between, you get a real advantage in building that playoff-specialized team. __________________ Rare mold, old vomit - An anagram rejected by Tom Riddle

07-23-2003, 11:13 AM	#12
rcartman28 NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Hudson, WI Posts: 1,408	Interesting, but I think the team should earn its playoff spot instead of coasting thru the season setting the team up for playoffs. The idea didn't work too well in 1981, either, giving "first-half" winners automatic playoff spots. __________________ I would have looked out for the water main. But that's just me..... Brett Favre

07-23-2003, 11:22 AM	#13
Wolf Hopper NetShrine Creator & Curator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: NetShrine WHQ Posts: 6,191	Agreed, having the team "know" going into the season that they have made the playoffs is a bad side of this - - as 1981 did show us. Maybe tweak it so that the Wild Card, in this case the defending champ, has an uphill battle - - and then that would be incentive to win the DIV and go for the "by." What's uphill enough? Wild Card has to play all post-season games before the WS on the road? Make it single elimination for the WC team - lose one game and you're out? Any ideas? I'm just thinking out loud with all this stuff....... __________________ Steve, Forum Administrator POSTING TIP FOR THE DAY: When composing a post, think about what you would say if the intended recipient was an individual who was actually sitting just two feet in front of you, in person, rather than just some far away and anonymous audience who only can identify you as text on a PC screen - - and then write your post in that manner. It makes for remarkable and sincere discourse.

07-22-2003, 11:14 PM	#2
sweaver Netshrine Cleanup Hitter Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Mountain State Posts: 8,883	I like it, but the TV executives would never go for it.

07-22-2003, 11:22 PM	#4
Skip NetShrine Vagabond Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Louisville Posts: 7,866	Wouldn't like it. In the NBA or other leagues where a ton of teams go to the playoffs each year, having the defending champ as an autopick might be cool. You only lose some other team that is barely .500 anyway. But baseball basically only allows the top quartile in and it'd be too easy to result in cases where worthy wildcards are lost. Earning a baseball playoff spot is still pretty precious, so I'd hate to see something willy-nilly like this put in place that might hit team A one year but miss team B the next.

07-22-2003, 11:44 PM	#5
sweaver Netshrine Cleanup Hitter Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Mountain State Posts: 8,883	"Worthy wildcard" is something of an oxymoron. As opposed to me, I am a specific moron.

07-23-2003, 08:42 AM	#7
WiredTiger Guest Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: The city of Kaline, Cobb and Greenberg Posts: 3,395	Teams change so much from year to year that I don't think this would be a great idea. Why reward a team for what they did last year? The Angels don't deserve to make this year's playoffs.

07-23-2003, 08:54 AM	#8
TGwynn19 Guest Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Naples, FL Posts: 2,087	I couldn't imagine giving the 1998 Marlins a free playoff berth.

07-23-2003, 09:11 AM	#9
TimmyB NetShrine's Magic 8-Ball Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Where the cops speak slow and the air is nice Posts: 2,591	No way, no how. Besides letting in teams like the '98 Marlins (which may have been a team like no other), you'd also get the '99 Padres. Blecch! Further, think of how it could have affected other great pennant races. Think the Yankees/Red Sox of '78 would have been so exciting? The Yankees would have known they were a lock. No riveting comeback. No Red Sox comeback. No playoff. No Bucky Dent. (Hmm... on second thought... no... wait... no... I'm sticking by my guns.) It's bad enough that some other sports with their oversized playoffs let in teams that really don't belong there. Baseball should not join that trend. Of course, not all teams will be the '98 Marlins et. al. Some, maybe most, will be really good teams. If that's the case, the have 162 games in which to prove it.

07-23-2003, 11:27 AM	#14
rcartman28 NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Hudson, WI Posts: 1,408	The idea that I have heard that I like the most, suggested by, I believe, Steve Hirdt, is to add a second wild card team and have the two wild cards play each other in a single game where the winner moves in the playoffs. This would have the effect that the wild card team has a disadvantage in the pitching rotation (e.g., Boston couldn't use Pedro in games 1 and 4 or 5) because they would have to use their best pitcher to win the single playoff game against the other wild card team. __________________ I would have looked out for the water main. But that's just me..... Brett Favre

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