Current HOF Pitchers....Unit, Clemens...Appier?

sweaver · 06-20-2003, 04:18 PM

Kevin Appier for the Hall?

Yeah.

While WiredTiger started a thread recently on David Wells' chances for the Hall, I got to thinking about who among current pitchers should be considered, but has been overlooked. Top of the parade is Kevin Appier.

Appier, from 1992-97, was a dominant pitcher. His quality was largely hidden by the offensive explosion and the fierce mediocrity of his team, the KC Royals. Now, after coming back from arm injury, he no longer has ace stuff, but is a capable #3 pitcher.

His career record is 161-127, in spite of pitching mostly for lousy teams. The Angels got a steal by unloading Mo Vaughn on the Mets to get him. And it was cool to see him get a ring last fall. But, when all is said and done, he won't be elected to Cooperstown.

And that's a shame.

Wolf Hopper · 06-20-2003, 04:22 PM

Appier's had Schilling's career in reverse.

JamesI · 06-20-2003, 05:54 PM

I've never considered Appier and the hall of fame. I'll have to think about him. But with 161 wins, he stands little chance since he wasn't Koufax or Pedro like.

pathogan · 06-20-2003, 07:08 PM

...and still cant believe with that motion he can still move, never mind pitch. I screamed when the mutts unloaded him[I preferred they give up trachsel] what a might have been staff in Kc, with cone appier and Saberhagen.Sigh

LeGrandOrange · 06-20-2003, 07:09 PM

Appier's good enough to get a non-sympathy vote...but not 5%.

I always seem kind of surprised to see Kevin on any list of greatness...I've seen him on several and it never ceases to amaze.

If he plays long enough for 200 wins...he might get a second ballot. Likely not an induction though because even with the ring he was never in the spotlight.

sweaver · 06-20-2003, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JamesI
I've never considered Appier and the hall of fame. I'll have to think about him. But with 161 wins, he stands little chance since he wasn't Koufax or Pedro like.

He was close to that level. In Dodger Stadium, in the 1960s.....he'd be listed with the all-time greats. It's all about context.

pwdennis · 06-21-2003, 07:32 PM

Appier is a good pitcher but there is nothing Koufax-like about his stats, and there wouldn't be if he pitched in Chavez Ravine in the 1960s - his fastball and curve are not THAT good.

Ytown Tribe fan · 06-21-2003, 07:58 PM

Ape started off hot enough. There's another guy way ahead of him that doesn't get mentioned much: Mike Mussina.

Mussina's only 33, and is a lock for 200+ wins -- maybe 250. He'll get votes.

satchel · 06-21-2003, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ytown Tribe fan
Ape started off hot enough. There's another guy way ahead of him that doesn't get mentioned much: Mike Mussina.

Mussina's only 33, and is a lock for 200+ wins -- maybe 250. He'll get votes.

If Mussina wins a couple of championships with the Yankees, he will be mentioned a great deal more.

On Appier, I am really glad we had this thread. I always thought of him as an okay pitcher, but not great. This thread prompted me to look back over his career numbers. He's a much better pitcher than I thought. I don't think he'll make the Hall though; he just doesn't have enough gaudy numbers - though pitching for lousy teams has had a lot to do with that.

JamesI · 06-21-2003, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ytown Tribe fan
Ape started off hot enough. There's another guy way ahead of him that doesn't get mentioned much: Mike Mussina.

Mussina's only 33, and is a lock for 200+ wins -- maybe 250. He'll get votes.

Maybe its because I live in New York and am an Orioles fan, but I hear Mussina's chances for the hall discussed a lot. I think he has a great shot, but its way to early, like discussing Nomar's shot. If his career ended today, he's out. But realistically, I think he'll make it baring blowing his arm out.

Maybe we need a new thread for this...

sweaver · 06-22-2003, 01:39 PM

Mussina is deserving, and will likely win sufficient votes for the Hall. Part of my point is, Appier is of comparable quality, and will never gather the votes needed even though he is deserving.

In Chavez Ravine in the 1960s, Appier might not have been Koufax, but he would certainly have matched Drysdale.

nyy26wc · 06-22-2003, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pwdennis
Appier is a good pitcher but there is nothing Koufax-like about his stats, and there wouldn't be if he pitched in Chavez Ravine in the 1960s - his fastball and curve are not THAT good.

There was nothing Koufax-like about Koufax when he wasn't pitching in Dodgers Stadium. He had a 3.75 career ERA in non Dodgers Stadium games.

So, if someone who had non Koufax-like numbers everywhere else he pitched could become Koufax under those circumstances, it does open the door for there to be others who would have done the same thing.

Golden Bear · 06-24-2003, 05:32 AM

Appier is a long way off, and he hasn't pitched at a very high level (consistently) since 1997. He's been getting by on guile, run support, and heavy reliance on his bullpen.

An excellent pitcher, and he suffered by playing for bad teams, but I'd be stunned if he managed to put together enough good seasons for even a strong borderline case.

jstu9 · 06-24-2003, 12:14 PM

Appier was a very good pitcher for several years though as a bunch of people noted, it wasn't dominant level and it wasn't for a long period of time.

He'd go in the Hall of Very Good.

As for Mussina, he is moving in the right direction and being now on a team that will likely win alot of games, so will he very likely. Ultimately, I think he has a very good chance of getting inducted but his final years will point one way or the other. he certainly has set himself up to get there one day so far.

Jim Rice · 06-27-2003, 01:36 PM

Hey, you never know about these voters. Even if his career ended right...about....NOW, Appier is a vastly better pitcher than Dave Stewart, who managed to somehow gather up 61 total votes over two ballots. Assuming he keeps playing, tack on about forty wins between now and his 40th birthday and Appier will be a better candidate than David Wells is right now (though Wells is obviously still building his case too).

But at the end of the day, none of them belong in the Hall.

06-20-2003, 04:18 PM	#1
sweaver Netshrine Cleanup Hitter Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Mountain State Posts: 8,883	Current HOF Pitchers....Unit, Clemens...Appier? Kevin Appier for the Hall? Yeah. While WiredTiger started a thread recently on David Wells' chances for the Hall, I got to thinking about who among current pitchers should be considered, but has been overlooked. Top of the parade is Kevin Appier. Appier, from 1992-97, was a dominant pitcher. His quality was largely hidden by the offensive explosion and the fierce mediocrity of his team, the KC Royals. Now, after coming back from arm injury, he no longer has ace stuff, but is a capable #3 pitcher. His career record is 161-127, in spite of pitching mostly for lousy teams. The Angels got a steal by unloading Mo Vaughn on the Mets to get him. And it was cool to see him get a ring last fall. But, when all is said and done, he won't be elected to Cooperstown. And that's a shame.

06-20-2003, 04:22 PM	#2
Wolf Hopper NetShrine Creator & Curator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: NetShrine WHQ Posts: 6,191	Appier's had Schilling's career in reverse. __________________ Steve, Forum Administrator POSTING TIP FOR THE DAY: When composing a post, think about what you would say if the intended recipient was an individual who was actually sitting just two feet in front of you, in person, rather than just some far away and anonymous audience who only can identify you as text on a PC screen - - and then write your post in that manner. It makes for remarkable and sincere discourse.

06-20-2003, 07:08 PM	#4
pathogan william Blake's Innkeeper Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Brooklyn Posts: 2,828	I agree ...and still cant believe with that motion he can still move, never mind pitch. I screamed when the mutts unloaded him[I preferred they give up trachsel] what a might have been staff in Kc, with cone appier and Saberhagen.Sigh

06-21-2003, 07:32 PM	#7
pwdennis NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Winter Springs, FL Posts: 2,503	Appier is a good pitcher but there is nothing Koufax-like about his stats, and there wouldn't be if he pitched in Chavez Ravine in the 1960s - his fastball and curve are not THAT good. __________________ "I would submit that if the world survives for a million years, perhaps its finest hour may be that in the last half of the 20th century, when the power to blow up the world rested in the hands of a few men in two very unsophisticated and suspicious countries, we didn't do it, and one American, Richard Nixon, moved the cold war away from permanent confrontation toward victory. How could any wrong that he did compare with that?" - John Sears

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06-20-2003, 05:54 PM	#3
JamesI Netshrine Vacuum Cleaner Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Potsdam, N.Y. Posts: 3,723	I've never considered Appier and the hall of fame. I'll have to think about him. But with 161 wins, he stands little chance since he wasn't Koufax or Pedro like.

06-20-2003, 07:09 PM	#5
LeGrandOrange Membership Suspended 4/11/04 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Tacoma, WA Posts: 3,783	Appier's good enough to get a non-sympathy vote...but not 5%. I always seem kind of surprised to see Kevin on any list of greatness...I've seen him on several and it never ceases to amaze. If he plays long enough for 200 wins...he might get a second ballot. Likely not an induction though because even with the ring he was never in the spotlight.

06-21-2003, 07:58 PM	#8
Ytown Tribe fan Guest Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Scrappers territory Posts: 2,515	Ape started off hot enough. There's another guy way ahead of him that doesn't get mentioned much: Mike Mussina. Mussina's only 33, and is a lock for 200+ wins -- maybe 250. He'll get votes.

06-22-2003, 01:39 PM	#11
sweaver Netshrine Cleanup Hitter Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Mountain State Posts: 8,883	Mussina is deserving, and will likely win sufficient votes for the Hall. Part of my point is, Appier is of comparable quality, and will never gather the votes needed even though he is deserving. In Chavez Ravine in the 1960s, Appier might not have been Koufax, but he would certainly have matched Drysdale.

06-24-2003, 05:32 AM	#13
Golden Bear NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Upstate New York Posts: 1,100	Appier is a long way off, and he hasn't pitched at a very high level (consistently) since 1997. He's been getting by on guile, run support, and heavy reliance on his bullpen. An excellent pitcher, and he suffered by playing for bad teams, but I'd be stunned if he managed to put together enough good seasons for even a strong borderline case.

06-24-2003, 12:14 PM	#14
jstu9 NetShrine Rookie Of The Year Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 47	Appier was a very good pitcher for several years though as a bunch of people noted, it wasn't dominant level and it wasn't for a long period of time. He'd go in the Hall of Very Good. As for Mussina, he is moving in the right direction and being now on a team that will likely win alot of games, so will he very likely. Ultimately, I think he has a very good chance of getting inducted but his final years will point one way or the other. he certainly has set himself up to get there one day so far.

06-27-2003, 01:36 PM	#15
Jim Rice Inducted Into The NetShrine Assembly of Fame Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Shawnee, KS Posts: 783	Hey, you never know about these voters. Even if his career ended right...about....NOW, Appier is a vastly better pitcher than Dave Stewart, who managed to somehow gather up 61 total votes over two ballots. Assuming he keeps playing, tack on about forty wins between now and his 40th birthday and Appier will be a better candidate than David Wells is right now (though Wells is obviously still building his case too). But at the end of the day, none of them belong in the Hall.

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