Finding Bush Where You Least Expect It

Wolf Hopper · 06-19-2003, 01:45 PM

Code:

MODERN (1900-)
Most consecutive seasons with 
WINNING PERCENTAGE >= .600
WINS >= 10 [Min 90 IP]

1    Christy Mathewson        1903-14   12   
T2   Sam Leever               1901-08    8   
T2   Three Finger Brown       1904-11    8   
T2   Bob Gibson               1963-70    8   
T5   Ed Reulbach              1906-12    7   
T5   Eddie Plank              1909-15    7   
T5   Lefty Grove              1927-33    7   
T5   Guy Bush                 1928-34    7   
T5   Ed Lopat                 1948-54    7   
T5   Whitey Ford              1953-59    7   
T5   Ron Guidry               1977-83    7   
T5   Roger Clemens            1986-92    7

Looking at Bush's seasons during this run, he was one lucky guy to make this list. All the other pitchers are known for greatness. Perhaps it is true - being lucky is just as desirable as being good?

sweaver · 06-19-2003, 01:56 PM

Winning percentage, like wins, are largely a function of team quality and luck.

And "greatness?" I wouldn't call Eddie Lopat or Ed Reulbach great. Good pitchers, yes, but hardly great. But they pitched on some extremely good teams.

Wolf Hopper · 06-19-2003, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sweaver
I wouldn't call Eddie Lopat or Ed Reulbach great. Good pitchers, yes, but hardly great.

Code:

1905-1915

RSAA                           RSAA    
1    Walter Johnson              366   
2    Christy Mathewson           292   
3    Three Finger Brown          263   
4    Ed Walsh                    259   
5    Eddie Plank                 188   
6    Grover C Alexander          176   
7    Joe Wood                    159   
8    Ed Reulbach                 151   
9    Addie Joss                  143   
10   Chief Bender                125 

1946-1953

RSAA                           RSAA    
1    Warren Spahn                198   
2    Mel Parnell                 191   
3    Robin Roberts               165   
4    Hal Newhouser               159   
5    Harry Brecheen              158   
6    Ed Lopat                    154   
7    Joe Dobson                  141   
8    Bob Lemon                   133   
9    Ellis Kinder                128   
10   Ned Garver                  103

You sure?

SmedIndy · 06-19-2003, 02:32 PM

Wolfie - most fans would now Sam Leever from Sammy Sosa.

Ytown Tribe fan · 06-19-2003, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Wolf Hopper

Code:

1905-1915 RSAA RSAA 1 Walter Johnson 366 2 Christy Mathewson 292 3 Three Finger Brown 263 4 Ed Walsh 259 5 Eddie Plank 188 6 Grover C Alexander 176 7 Joe Wood 159 8 Ed Reulbach 151 9 Addie Joss 143 10 Chief Bender 125

You sure?

Ed Reulbach was NOT a better pitcher than Addie Joss, who just so happened to die after the 1910 season, right smack in the middle of your sample. Shame on you.

Wolf Hopper · 06-19-2003, 04:01 PM

Hey, a dead pitcher is a lousy pitcher in my book.

Last time I checked, no guy with worms living in his skull ever got an out. (Insert Pedro and David Wells joke here.)

Wolf Hopper · 06-19-2003, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SmedIndy
Wolfie - most fans would now Sam Leever from Sammy Sosa.

Huh?

Fuzzy Bear · 06-19-2003, 04:30 PM

Bill James once did an essay on Ed Reulbach, which I cannot find right now. Reulbach was lowly regarded in his own time, and often pitched against inferior teams, if I remember correctly.

LeGrandOrange · 06-19-2003, 04:37 PM

I growned when I saw your topic and thought you were referring to Bullet Joe before opening...

I think a stat like that proves that the Mississippi Mudcat was ultra-lucky. It doesn't make him as good a pitcher as the guys on the list...wins have never been everything, nor percentage. We don't consider Spud Chandler or Don Gullett among the all-time greats...Gullett should've been but I digress.

It is a good "who knew!" list though...

SmedIndy · 06-19-2003, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Wolf Hopper
Huh?

Leever was #2 on your original list. Pick on Bush - gotta pick on Leever too.

Ytown Tribe fan · 06-19-2003, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Wolf Hopper
Hey, a dead pitcher is a lousy pitcher in my book.

Last time I checked, no guy with worms living in his skull ever got an out. (Insert Pedro and David Wells joke here.)

Ya know -- any other Tribe fan would take offense at that remark. After all, Joss is a LEGEND to Tribe fans. And he was a great pitcher.

But, I'm not any other Tribe fan. Wanna buy a Steve Olin bobble-head doll?

sweaver · 06-19-2003, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SmedIndy
Leever was #2 on your original list. Pick on Bush - gotta pick on Leever too.

Too true, and I should have.

Yes, I'm sure. Lopat on that list comes in between Harry Brecheen and Joe Dobson. Enough said? Good, not great.

Wolf Hopper · 06-19-2003, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SmedIndy
Leever was #2 on your original list. Pick on Bush - gotta pick on Leever too.

Huh?

Code:

1899-1907

RSAA                           RSAA    
1    Cy Young                    326   
2    Rube Waddell                242   
3    Joe McGinnity               234   
4    Christy Mathewson           192   
5    Noodles Hahn                189   
6    Vic Willis                  161   
7    Deacon Phillippe            160   
8    Sam Leever                  159   
9    Three Finger Brown          139   
10   Addie Joss                  132

gyb13 · 06-19-2003, 08:48 PM

wolf, what are you trying to say? that leever was better than bush because he shows up on the top 10 list for rsaa from 1899-1907? not a very powerful argument based just on that table

Wolf Hopper · 06-19-2003, 10:38 PM

Just that all on the list - including Sam - had impressive careers - sans Bush, who made the list anyway.

06-19-2003, 01:45 PM	#1
Wolf Hopper NetShrine Creator & Curator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: NetShrine WHQ Posts: 6,191	Finding Bush Where You Least Expect It Code: MODERN (1900-) Most consecutive seasons with WINNING PERCENTAGE >= .600 WINS >= 10 [Min 90 IP] 1 Christy Mathewson 1903-14 12 T2 Sam Leever 1901-08 8 T2 Three Finger Brown 1904-11 8 T2 Bob Gibson 1963-70 8 T5 Ed Reulbach 1906-12 7 T5 Eddie Plank 1909-15 7 T5 Lefty Grove 1927-33 7 T5 Guy Bush 1928-34 7 T5 Ed Lopat 1948-54 7 T5 Whitey Ford 1953-59 7 T5 Ron Guidry 1977-83 7 T5 Roger Clemens 1986-92 7 Looking at Bush's seasons during this run, he was one lucky guy to make this list. All the other pitchers are known for greatness. Perhaps it is true - being lucky is just as desirable as being good? __________________ Steve, Forum Administrator POSTING TIP FOR THE DAY: When composing a post, think about what you would say if the intended recipient was an individual who was actually sitting just two feet in front of you, in person, rather than just some far away and anonymous audience who only can identify you as text on a PC screen - - and then write your post in that manner. It makes for remarkable and sincere discourse.

06-19-2003, 04:01 PM	#6
Wolf Hopper NetShrine Creator & Curator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: NetShrine WHQ Posts: 6,191	Hey, a dead pitcher is a lousy pitcher in my book. Last time I checked, no guy with worms living in his skull ever got an out. (Insert Pedro and David Wells joke here.) __________________ Steve, Forum Administrator POSTING TIP FOR THE DAY: When composing a post, think about what you would say if the intended recipient was an individual who was actually sitting just two feet in front of you, in person, rather than just some far away and anonymous audience who only can identify you as text on a PC screen - - and then write your post in that manner. It makes for remarkable and sincere discourse.

06-19-2003, 08:48 PM	#14
gyb13 NS Omnipresent Brasilian Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Crazy George's playground Posts: 10,903	wolf, what are you trying to say? that leever was better than bush because he shows up on the top 10 list for rsaa from 1899-1907? not a very powerful argument based just on that table __________________ Gustavo NDF Moderator Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin

06-19-2003, 10:38 PM	#15
Wolf Hopper NetShrine Creator & Curator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: NetShrine WHQ Posts: 6,191	Just that all on the list - including Sam - had impressive careers - sans Bush, who made the list anyway. __________________ Steve, Forum Administrator POSTING TIP FOR THE DAY: When composing a post, think about what you would say if the intended recipient was an individual who was actually sitting just two feet in front of you, in person, rather than just some far away and anonymous audience who only can identify you as text on a PC screen - - and then write your post in that manner. It makes for remarkable and sincere discourse.

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06-19-2003, 01:56 PM	#2
sweaver Netshrine Cleanup Hitter Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Mountain State Posts: 8,883	Winning percentage, like wins, are largely a function of team quality and luck. And "greatness?" I wouldn't call Eddie Lopat or Ed Reulbach great. Good pitchers, yes, but hardly great. But they pitched on some extremely good teams.

06-19-2003, 02:32 PM	#4
SmedIndy NetShrine's Historian Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Zionsville, IN Posts: 10,569	Wolfie - most fans would now Sam Leever from Sammy Sosa.

06-19-2003, 04:30 PM	#8
Fuzzy Bear NetShrine's Evangelist Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Living by faith, and not by sight! Posts: 2,194	Bill James once did an essay on Ed Reulbach, which I cannot find right now. Reulbach was lowly regarded in his own time, and often pitched against inferior teams, if I remember correctly.

06-19-2003, 04:37 PM	#9
LeGrandOrange Membership Suspended 4/11/04 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Tacoma, WA Posts: 3,783	I growned when I saw your topic and thought you were referring to Bullet Joe before opening... I think a stat like that proves that the Mississippi Mudcat was ultra-lucky. It doesn't make him as good a pitcher as the guys on the list...wins have never been everything, nor percentage. We don't consider Spud Chandler or Don Gullett among the all-time greats...Gullett should've been but I digress. It is a good "who knew!" list though...

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