Backwards Baseball

[Wolf Hopper]

I was thinking about this today.

I think it would be fun if a manager had the nerve to try this for a game:

Instead of having your SP start the game, save him.

In his place, let your "closer" pitch the 1st inning of the game - and then take him out. For innings 2 through 4, use your "set up" guys. Then, for innings 5 through 9, bring in the SP and let him air it out for five innings.

Think about it. The closer pitches a scoreless 1st, and helps you get ahead first. Even if the set up men give up some runs, it's OK. It's early, you still have 5 innings to get those runs back. It's better than when the set up guys give up a run in the 7th and you only have 2 innings to get them back. And, then, your starter comes in to "close" the game.

I actually though about this with Clemens going for his 300th win on his next start. It would be wild if the Yankees had Mo Rivera pitch the 1st. Hammonds, Osuna and Hitchcock could get the next 9 outs, and then Rocket comes in the game in the 5th, and pumps gas for 5 innings. And, on the plus side, Clemens could be on the mound for the final out in he 9th.

I'm pretty sure a "SP" would still get the win with this approach. Anyone know?

Anyone else ever think about something like this? Thoughts?

[WiredTiger]

The one problem that I see is if the starting pitcher gets hurt or gets shelled than you have already used up a lot of your bullpen.

[Wolf Hopper]

Originally posted by WiredTiger
The one problem that I see is if the starting pitcher gets hurt or gets shelled than you have already used up a lot of your bullpen.

True - but, you would still have to have more guys used if the SP gets knocked out in the 3rd, no?

[GGC]

Steve, I like the idea myself. It might be an even better idea in the NL. Have a short guy throw gas until the pitcher's spot comes up and then you PH for him and bring in a "starter."

[RedSeat]

What if the lead is taken while one of the set up guys is on the mound? He's not the starter, so it I don't think it would be a scorer's decision as to who gets the "win".

I think the main argument against using this as a strategy is that if you're going to give your starters four days rest between appearances, you want to get as many innings out of them as you can. By putting them in late, you limit the number of innings pitched (to five in your example), and then you don't get him back until his next time around. Unless you abandon the rotation completely and have a staff of 11 relievers, each availalbe everyday (taking previous work into account).

Interesting idea to get Roger on the mound in the ninth, though.

[Wolf Hopper]

Originally posted by RedSeat
What if the lead is taken while one of the set up guys is on the mound? He's not the starter, so it I don't think it would be a scorer's decision as to who gets the "win".

Come to think of it - the "SP" may end up with a 5 IP save.

Well, I guess if stats didn't matter, and you just had to win the game, it still may be an interesting approach.

[Wolf Hopper]

Originally posted by GGC
Steve, I like the idea myself. It might be an even better idea in the NL. Have a short guy throw gas until the pitcher's spot comes up and then you PH for him and bring in a "starter."

Interesting.

[dave7636]

The problem I see with it is you're using your best relievers in games you're not necessarily going to win. So when would you choose to do it? You can't have Rivera start every game.

Having said that, its a shame there is not more creativity in the way pitchers are used.

How about this? With it being so obvious that a lot of pretty good pitchers can't make it through the order three times, you restructure the whole staff, so that:

You're best three pitchers throw 4 innings only every three games, for 216 innings each.

You're next three pitchers throw 3 innings every three games, for 162 innings each.

You save the last two innings for your five relievers left, depending on the circumstances.

This would eliminate throwing between starts, would not increase anyone's innings, give pitchers fewer times through the order, and mess up other team's platoons, for instance, going with a righty for the first four, and a lefty for the next three. So the Yankees could go the whole year with Clemens, Mussina, or Wells on the mound.

[Rajah]

Originally posted by GGC
Steve, I like the idea myself. It might be an even better idea in the NL. Have a short guy throw gas until the pitcher's spot comes up and then you PH for him and bring in a "starter."

I love that idea GGC. Of course, if you take the lead early and never relinquesh it, then the real "starter" won't get a "W", which would piss off a lot of guys. I could see Earl Weaver doing this if he were an NL manager though.

I doubt that there are any managers out there today ballsy enough to try it.

[rcartman28]

Didn't Larussa try using three pitchers for three innings each game for about a week roughly ten years ago ??? Of course, at the time, he probably had nothing to lose by trying it.....

Another problem with trying this with Clemens is what if he comes in the fourth inning and the Bombers are already down something like 7-1??

[poorme]

reminds me of the time lee smith started the last game of the year in 1981. of course he went 6 innings...

[GGC]

Originally posted by poorme
reminds me of the time lee smith started the last game of the year in 1981. of course he went 6 innings...

That did happen: I checked out

http://www.retrosheet.org/

for October 4, 1981 in the calendar.

I shouldn't have been a doubting Gary.

[Rajah]

Originally posted by rcartman28
Another problem with trying this with Clemens is what if he comes in the fourth inning and the Bombers are already down something like 7-1??

They could just send in one of the other 16 starters