So Long Twinkies?

[NetShrine]

This is SO UNFAIR to the Twins' fans. THIS makes me sick.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/news/2001/1101/1271856.html

November 1
State legislator: Baseball looking to eliminate Twins
ESPN.com news services

A prominent Minnesota state legislator says the Twins and Montreal Expos are the two teams targeted for contraction if the vote is held Tuesday during the owners' meetings in Chicago, The Minneapolis Star Tribune reported Thursday.

Harry Mares, R-White Bear Lake, told the newspaper Wednesday that a top baseball official in New York informed him the Twins and Expos are the teams under consideration.

Commissioner Bud Selig said earlier this week it is possible two major league teams could be eliminated by the start of next season.

Owners plan to meet in Chicago the week following the World Series, and Selig said he wasn't sure if any decisions on shrinking the league would be made then.

Mares, a chief sponsor of the Twins' latest stadium bill, told the Star Tribune that if that vote is taken, the Twins and Expos will be dissolved. The legislator said not voting on contraction would mean Selig does not have enough support (23 votes needed out 30).

"I think it's 50-50 whether there's a vote or not, based on what I've been told," Mares told The Star Tribune. "I would hope a vote wouldn't be taken. I will say there are a lot of things that would have to fall into place for all this to happen.

"If they take a vote, Minnesota will be contracted, I believe, with Montreal being the other team. But I can't give you my sources for this. I think if it comes to a vote, we're done. If it doesn't come to a vote, that means they couldn't get the votes and anything is possible."

Asked Wednesday by the Star Tribune whether the Twins could actually cease to exist, Selig said only, "I have some very tough decisions to make."

Meanwhile, an unnamed baseball official reportedly said Wednesday that Twins owner Carl Pohlad would be paid $250 million from Major League Baseball if he agrees to contraction.

Twins officials did not comment to the Star Tribune report, but Pohlad was quoted in the Star Tribune on Wednesday as saying "is not just a rumor," referring to talk in baseball circles that his club is a target.

Pohlad last week said he probably would submit to any baseball contraction if he can't get a new stadium.

"That's what any sane guy would do," Pohlad told The Star Tribune. "The economics dictate it."

[BuzzBuzzard]

What is unfair about it?

[NetShrine]

I think Twin fans have shown that they will come out if the team is playing well - - - and, now the team is playing well. Plus, there's a lot of Twin tradition - - - - many Twins are in Cooperstown. Seems a shame to say "that's it" basically because the owner just wants to take the money and run.

[CubFan7125]

I am a lifelong resident of Minnesota. I love the Twins more than my family. While I am very emotional on this subject, let me state a few facts.

1. OK this 1 is not objective "BUZZARD IS AN IDIOT" Lets strip your team and see if you still think it's unfair.

2. Minnesota was the 1st A.L. team to draw 3,000,000 fans. Not New York, not Boston, not Baltimore or Cleveland, but Minnesota.

3. There are only 18,000 lower deck seats in the Metrodome, very few of which actually face the field, so drawing any fans is a miracle.

4. As evidenced this year, when a winning product is put out, we will show up.

5.The Twins Cities is a baseball town,in addition to the Twins, the indy Saints sell out 6600 seats 45 nights a summer.

6. Although they have not been allowed to operate properly because of budget constraints, the Twins have one of the best minor league operations in baseball. Damien Miller started out as a Twin, Jay Bell was drafted as a Twin. Just a couple of many examples, I only mention those 2 because they are still playing. Knoblauch was a frequent All-Star with the Twins.Oh Gee, he is still playing.

7. Lets examine the last 2 blockbuster trades the team made.
Knoblauch for Eric Milton, Cristan Guzman & Brian Buchanan - Let's see, they traded a player who got bad in a hurry for 2 potential superstars & a serviceable 4th outfielder. Sounds like a bad franchise to me.
Viola for Tapani & Aguilara - They traded away a Cy Young winner who was never the same again for their next ace and their star reliever for a decade.

With proper ownership & a halfway decent stadium this is a good franchise. Montreal, Tampa, & Miami don't support their teams nearly as much as Minnesota does, but then they don't have owners who want to cash out either.

[NetShrine]

Originally posted by CubFan7125
OK this 1 is not objective "BUZZARD IS AN IDIOT" Lets strip your team and see if you still think it's unfair.

CubFan - - I want to egg Carl Pohlad's house on this one - and, I'm not even a Twins fan - so, I feel your pain. Hang in there. Maybe it won't happen?

That said, I have to address the comment quoted above.

Our members must provide respect to other values, opinions, and ideas even if they strongly disagree with those ideas.

Name calling is a here.

Buzz was merely doing what he does best - - checking me. I have a bad habit of making statements without providing the "why?" Here, I said it was "unfair" without saying "why?" Buzz was right to question me. It was a smart move on his part.

[BuzzBuzzard]

CubFan - What I was saying was I don't see removing the Twins as being any more or any less fair than any other team in the league (and still don't). If it were the Mets, I'd be upset about it, without question.

[satchel]

What strikes me as particularly unfair about contracting the Twins (and maybe "unfair" isn't even the right word) is that it sometimes seems Pohlad has spent his tenure trying to run his franchise into the ground. He's the worst owner in baseball, and apparently thinks it's reasonable to expect a return on no investment. Say what you will about Steinbrenner, Angelos, Hicks, and others; at least they have been willing to spend money on their teams (for better or worse). Pohlad has been nothing but stingy and whiny. He (like Selig) insists he needs a new stadium to compete - then, when his team *does* compete, and draws fans in the old stadium, he wants to bail. I hate this guy, and it would be a shame for the great fans in Minneapolis (save a few hot-dork heaving losers) to lose their team because Pohlad couldn't be bothered to figure out how to run a ballclub.

[Duque]

Twins have a long tradition too - as the Senators, and two WS championships under their belts. Plus, Minneapolis-St. Paul is a great sports town.

If you have to contract, why not just gut the DRays? They have a terrible stadium, terrible attendance, terrible team, terrible management, and a pretty weak future. To paraphrase the old "If a tree falls in the forest..." - if the Rays were shut down tomorrow, would anyone really care?

[CubFan7125]

Buzz - I apologize for calling you an idiot, I did not understand the context in which your statement was made.

It's trivia time kids - so here we go

Q - Who was the first baseball player to make at least
$3,000,000 a season.
A - Kirby Puckett

Considering the subject discussed I thought this was an interesting item.

[hmrsf]

They have a great product and there is no reason why they do not draw better. They turn out great players year after year. I would love to own their minor system!!!

[BuzzBuzzard]

Originally posted by CubFan7125
Buzz - I apologize for calling you an idiot, I did not understand the context in which your statement was made.

No sweat.

[NetShrine]

http://espn.go.com/mlb/news/2001/1102/1272379.html

Friday, November 2
Report: Only Pohlad can keep Twins afloat
ESPN.com news services

MINNEAPOLIS -- Major League Baseball commissioner Bud Selig has accumulated enough votes to buy out the Minnesota Twins' franchise, baseball officials told the Minneapolis Star Tribune on Thursday.

The officials told the newspaper it is extremely likely that the Twins and Montreal Expos will cease to exist if MLB reduces the number of teams from 30 to 28.

The only thing that could save the Twins from contraction is if owner Carl Pohlad has a change of heart, MLB officials told the Star Tribune.

The Twins are coming off their best season in years. They finished in second place in the American League Central with an 85-77 record, six games behind the first-place Cleveland Indians. The Twins are also currently without a manager, with Tom Kelly retiring after the conclusion of the regular season.

A new stadium plan also could, theoretically, save the Twins' franchise. But Minnesota politicians told the Star Tribune on Thursday that they believe little can be done to improve the chances of building a new stadium for the franchise. John Wodele, spokesman for Gov. Jesse Ventura, told the newspaper that the governor remains opposed to public subsidies for professional sports teams.

"Jesse doesn't believe that public tax money should support a stadium," he told the Star Tribune. "He's always thought that. He's not going to get involved in trying to save Major League Baseball here."

At least 23 of 30 owners would be required to approve contraction. According to the Star Tribune, Selig has the votes, plus the willingness of Pohlad to accept a $250 million buyout.

The threat of contraction has prompted some local business leaders to attempt to put together groups of investors willing to buy the team, the Star Tribune reported. However, there's no guarantee new ownership would eliminate the threat of contraction. Clark Griffith, the son of former Twins owner Calvin Griffith, told the newspaper that he has called Pohlad about the possibility of putting a group together to buy the team, but that he has not heard back from Pohlad.

One person familiar with the contraction negotiations told the Star Tribune that the timing of any announcement is important. MLB's collective bargaining agreement with the Players' Association expires at the end of the World Series. If baseball enacts contraction after the labor contract expires but before entering into negotiations with the Players' Association, it can make the move without the players' approval and force the players to negotiate to reinstitute the 50 lost jobs.

From Sports.Lycos.com.

Eliminating Twins a serious issue in Minnesota

By BRIAN BAKST, Associated Press Writer
as of 11/1/01 12:07ET

ST. PAUL -- State leaders say talk in baseball circles that the Minnesota Twins could be eliminated is being taken seriously, but some warned that it better not be a hollow threat in the team´s bid for a new stadium.
“It ought not be used as a ploy because that would really backfire,” Senate Majority Leader Roger Moe, who has been supportive of stadium proposals, said Wednesday.

Major League Baseball is considering contraction, in which a couple of struggling franchises could be folded. The Twins, Montreal Expos, Florida Marlins and Tampa Bay Devil Rays are teams considered vulnerable.

The Twins didn´t make owner Carl Pohlad available for an interview with The Associated Press, but Pohlad told the St. Paul Pioneer Press in a story published Thursday that he hasn´t asked his fellow owners for a buyout. But he said it could happen if the other owners want it.

“I´ve furnished a team here for 15 years and put $150 million cash into it, and I´m not going to do it anymore,” Pohlad said. “I´m tired of it. A business has to pay for itself. Nobody in this town in the last 15 years has given as much as I have to baseball.”

Pohlad, who bought the Twins in 1984, has spent several years trying to convince lawmakers that he can´t turn a profit without a new, publicly subsidized ballpark.

Momentum seemed to shift in his favor in the 2001 session, when stadium financing plans moved through House and Senate committees and wound up a few steps away from Gov. Jesse Ventura´s desk. Backers hoped to finish the job in 2002.

Within the next few days, officials from the Republican-controlled House, DFL-led Senate and Ventura´s administration expect to launch a stadium task force to explore options.

The contraction talk will be part of the context.

“I´m not sure that totally changes the mix of what´s appropriate state action and what´s not appropriate state action,” said House Speaker Steve Sviggum, R-Kenyon. “But I consider it to be serious.”

Likewise, Ventura “is as anxious as most citizens are about this latest report,” his spokesman John Wodele said.

“We´re taking it very seriously. We have no way to know. Nobody has contacted us so we have to take it at face value,” Wodele said. “If Carl Pohlad says it is a possibility, he is a very trustworthy person, he is not loose with his comments.”

Wodele said Ventura is still hopeful that a privately financed ballpark can be built and the prospect of contraction doesn´t mean he´ll change his tack.

Pohlad could also sell the Twins and let the new owner or owners fight contraction or lobby for public money for a new ballpark, and in the Pioneer Press story said he preferred that to a buyout.

Minnesota Timberwolves owner Glen Taylor, who has considered buying the team with other investors, said Wednesday he hasn´t been contacted by the Pohlads. He said there´s “nothing special at this point,” adding, “I´m a Twins fan, so I support keeping baseball here just like everyone else.”

Moe and Sen. Dean Johnson, who sponsored a stadium bill in 2001, said they want assurances from Major League Baseball that the loss of the Twins is a real possibility and not a card being played in the stadium effort.

And they want word before next session, which convenes Jan. 29.

“Major League Baseball needs to give a true, verifiable assessment as to the status of baseball in Minnesota -- pure and simple,” said Johnson, DFL-Willmar.

Moe, DFL-Erskine, alluded to a failed 1997 deal in the height of a stadium fight at the Legislature, when Pohlad agreed to sell the Twins to a North Carolina businessman who was to move the team. Minnesota lawmakers didn´t flinch and the team stayed put.

“If there are discussions within organized baseball (about contraction), they better be serious. This better not be another hairy arm,” Moe said. “We´ve been there; it backfired the last time.”

Originally posted by CubFan7125
Buzz - I apologize for calling you an idiot, I did not understand the context in which your statement was made.

I'm glad you were decent enough to say this, since I too have had my differences with Buzz but you know what? It's only a game and people have views so I just take everything with a grain of salt.

<Buzz-proof invisible ink>Buzz seems like a decent guy, but I'm so glad he's not reading this right now or I may have to retract that </Buzz-proof invisible ink>

[BuzzBuzzard]

Read what?