Ernest "Mr. Cub" Banks

Crash Course · 10-20-2006, 12:26 PM

He played in the major leagues from 1953 to 1971.

nyy26wc · 10-20-2006, 02:19 PM

Highly overrated player, but 207 RCAA is too much for me to vote against him.

KCBOOMER · 10-20-2006, 03:10 PM

Hard to believe that an 11-time All-Star and two time MVP could be overrated, but that is probably the case here. I find that RCAA is a little harsh on Banks as it gives him no credit for playing 1000 games at SS. On the other hand, his WARP3 of 127 seems too over reward him for playing almost half his career at short.

Crash Course · 10-20-2006, 03:15 PM

Here's a question - does he go in as a SS or a 1B?
He played more games at 1B than SS.

nyy26wc · 10-20-2006, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KCBOOMER

Hard to believe that an 11-time All-Star and two time MVP could be overrated, but that is probably the case here. I find that RCAA is a little harsh on Banks as it gives him no credit for playing 1000 games at SS. On the other hand, his WARP3 of 127 seems too over reward him for playing almost half his career at short.

I think RCAA gives him the appropriate credit for playing 1000 games at SS.

There is absolutely no value to being a guy playing shortstop. Every team, in every game, has something being guy playing shortstop. Therefore, any value generated by Banks must immediately be nullified by other team having guy playing shortstop, leading to a net gain to his team of nothing.

mainsr · 10-25-2006, 01:45 PM

I feel an RCAP argument coming on...A shortstop with a bat like Banks is far more valuable to a team than a first baseman or left fielder with a bat like Banks. Take the '61 Cubs. They had Banks at short, having a typical Banks season. The first baseman, a platoon of Ed Bouchee and Andre Rodgers, were nothing special. But having a shortstop like Banks was a huge advantage, measured by OPS. With Banks at short, the Cubs had a guy with an .853 OPS at short and a guy with either a .788 OPS or a .773 OPS at first. With Banks at first, the Cubs had a guy with a .707 OPS at short (Jerry Kindall) and a buy with an .853 OPS at first. That's not atypical by any means, in Banks' two MVP seasons, the Cubs had Dale Long at first, with an OPS of .824 one year and .738 the next; the most logical shortstop candidate on the Cubs those years was probably Johnny Goryl in '58 (.696 and .618 OPS).

The thing about Banks is that he really wasn't all that good of a 1B. He was some kind of shortstop, though. I think any player whose primary offensive value is HR and RBI is going to be overrated, but Banks was top-10 in park-adjusted OPS for six straight seasons, and a shortstop to boot.

View Poll Results: Should Ernie Banks Be In NetShrine?
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10-20-2006, 12:26 PM	#1
Crash Course NetShrine Creator & Curator Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NetShrine WHQ Posts: 10,070	Ernest "Mr. Cub" Banks He played in the major leagues from 1953 to 1971. __________________ Steve, Forum Admin Hit Grass, Win Salad Man, this is baseball. You gotta stop thinking. Just have fun. - Benny "The Jet" Rodriguez, in The Sandlot I've been going to games since August 8, 1973....and on August 22, 2004, finally, a foul ball came my way. I had to reach for it, and it deflected off the tip of my right index finger. Shoot, if I was only 4 inches taller! Have you read The Baseball Same Game?

10-20-2006, 02:19 PM	#2
nyy26wc NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: NJ Posts: 14,584	Highly overrated player, but 207 RCAA is too much for me to vote against him. __________________ Lee Creator, Complete Baseball Encyclopedia. It's powerful, yet extremely easy to use. Features extensive sorting and stat display options. The CBE has many features that are not available in online and printed sources. Has 2006 stats and daily update service for 2007.

10-20-2006, 03:10 PM	#3
KCBOOMER NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Home of the T-Bones Posts: 11,116	Hard to believe that an 11-time All-Star and two time MVP could be overrated, but that is probably the case here. I find that RCAA is a little harsh on Banks as it gives him no credit for playing 1000 games at SS. On the other hand, his WARP3 of 127 seems too over reward him for playing almost half his career at short. __________________ KCBOOMER *Buck O'Neil: The Monarch of Baseball*

10-20-2006, 03:15 PM	#4
Crash Course NetShrine Creator & Curator Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NetShrine WHQ Posts: 10,070	Here's a question - does he go in as a SS or a 1B? He played more games at 1B than SS. __________________ Steve, Forum Admin Hit Grass, Win Salad Man, this is baseball. You gotta stop thinking. Just have fun. - Benny "The Jet" Rodriguez, in The Sandlot I've been going to games since August 8, 1973....and on August 22, 2004, finally, a foul ball came my way. I had to reach for it, and it deflected off the tip of my right index finger. Shoot, if I was only 4 inches taller! Have you read The Baseball Same Game?

10-25-2006, 01:45 PM	#6
mainsr NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Saratoga Springs, NY Posts: 1,557	I feel an RCAP argument coming on...A shortstop with a bat like Banks is far more valuable to a team than a first baseman or left fielder with a bat like Banks. Take the '61 Cubs. They had Banks at short, having a typical Banks season. The first baseman, a platoon of Ed Bouchee and Andre Rodgers, were nothing special. But having a shortstop like Banks was a huge advantage, measured by OPS. With Banks at short, the Cubs had a guy with an .853 OPS at short and a guy with either a .788 OPS or a .773 OPS at first. With Banks at first, the Cubs had a guy with a .707 OPS at short (Jerry Kindall) and a buy with an .853 OPS at first. That's not atypical by any means, in Banks' two MVP seasons, the Cubs had Dale Long at first, with an OPS of .824 one year and .738 the next; the most logical shortstop candidate on the Cubs those years was probably Johnny Goryl in '58 (.696 and .618 OPS). The thing about Banks is that he really wasn't all that good of a 1B. He was some kind of shortstop, though. I think any player whose primary offensive value is HR and RBI is going to be overrated, but Banks was top-10 in park-adjusted OPS for six straight seasons, and a shortstop to boot. __________________ "Let's let bye-byes be bye-byes." --The Greatest Leadoff Hitter of All Time

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