Nix-ed Boston-Florida deal

gyb13 · 10-23-2002, 09:30 PM

Florida offered Mike Lowell and Kevin Millar to Boston for Shea Hillenbrand and Trot Nixon, but were rejected:
http://espn.go.com/mlb/news/2002/1023/1450096.html

Mike Lowell 816 OPS, 24 HR, 92 RBI, 65 BB, 92 SO
Hillenbrand 789 OPS, 18 HR, 83 RBI, 25 BB, 95 SO

Millar 875 OPS, 16 HR, 57 RBI, 40 BB, 74 SO
Nixon 808 OPS, 24 HR, 94 RBI, 65 BB, 109 SO

The deal would've saved Florida about a million.

If you were Boston, would you have pulled the deal?

LeGrandOrange · 10-23-2002, 09:49 PM

Only if you dealt Brian Daubach for a guy who played good defense...

Duque · 10-23-2002, 09:51 PM

In a second. Millar would give them a much better option at 1B, and Lowell, while not a great player, is at least better offensively and defensively than Hillenbrand.

SmedIndy · 10-23-2002, 10:28 PM

Oh yeah! Duffman makes that trade!

However - the BoSox may be mesmerized by the shiny things on the key ring (AVG, RBI) and not what wins...

LeGrandOrange · 10-23-2002, 10:34 PM

Who's going to fill in for Trotman in the OF? I sort of forgot that you needed a 1B and I didn't think that you'd trade for the replacement...

Husier · 10-23-2002, 10:56 PM

I've turned this one over and over and don't know which side I favor, but I think I see why Boston might turn it down.

If I'm Boston, I look at it like this:

Lowell is 28, Millar is 31.

Hillenbrand is 27, Nixon is 28.

Offensively, the Marlins have an edge ... not a huge one, but an edge nonetheless.

Lowell is a solid defensive 3B. Millar is a 1B being used in the OF, with little defensive value.

Hillenbrand is OK at 3B. Nixon is a good RF with the ability to play CF in a pinch.

Lowell makes $3.7M in 03. Millar made $900,000 last season and is eligible for arbitration; Nixon made $2.7M and will go to arbitration. Hillenbrand made $260,000 and is not arby-eligible, so he'll get a small bump ($300,000-$400,000?).

If Boston makes the deal, they get a little older and probably more expensive, plus open a hole in the OF and take away one of their few lefty bats. The Red Sox can find a 1B-DH easier (or a platoon) and cheaper than they can find someone to play RF.

sweaver · 10-24-2002, 12:16 AM

No, I don't make that deal if I'm Boston, unless I have a kid ready to play RF. Giving up too much in age and defense. Imagine the ground Damon would have to cover, playing between Ramirez and Millar in the OF?

pwdennis · 10-24-2002, 12:21 AM

Nothing to gain for Boston by making this particular deal

soxfan121 · 10-24-2002, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sweaver
No, I don't make that deal if I'm Boston, unless I have a kid ready to play RF. Giving up too much in age and defense. Imagine the ground Damon would have to cover, playing between Ramirez and Millar in the OF?

There is no kid close in the OF sweaver. Remember all that ugly business of the Sox possibly buying Brady Clark and other Reds prospects?

Damon would rop from exhaustion sometime in late July. But there's no way Millar would be a regular LF (Manny would presumably move back to RF - [shudder smilie]). Millar would be part-time LF, part-time DH, occaisional 1B.

But I would not have done that deal. If FLA is interested in moving arbitration cases for Hillenbrand and Nixon, I would ask about Penny and Lee. I would gladly create a hole in the lineup for more pitching. There are alternatives who can play 3B on the market (Mueller, Catalanotto, Ventura) and more 'system depth' at 3B than anywhere else (Mr. Youkilis, Tony Blanco, possibly Wilton Veras).

I believe that some BOS-FLA deal will go down in the offseason. I also believe it could be much larger than the deal reported. I heard Mike Port (still, as of this writing the interim-GM) responding to the Hillenbrand-and-Nixon for Millar-and-Lowell deal on radio today. He talked vaguely about 'organizational priorities' and 'addressing the core needs of a playoff team'. But he also said that negotiations were on-going and that he believed that any deal should include pitching as a top priority.

Basically, he asked for Penny. And Penny-Millar-Lee for Nixon-Hillenbrand-Hancock (or another cheap, young arm) would make me a very happy fan.

VNV Nation · 10-24-2002, 01:26 AM

I turn the deal down as there's no obvious benefit to be had.

WiredTiger · 10-24-2002, 09:56 AM

I would say no even though I am not a big Shea Hillebrand fan. The Marlins guys are older, more expensive and not much better than the Red Sox players.

KCBOOMER · 10-24-2002, 10:13 AM

Lowell and Millar had a combined RCAA last year of +32 while Nixon and Hillenbrand had +18. Is that differential worth $1.5M to the Sox.

tortured angel · 10-24-2002, 10:15 AM

Can the Red Sox afford to take on more payroll without getting an obvious upgrade? I don't think this deal makes enough impact to add a million bucks.

hmrsf · 10-24-2002, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by KCBOOMER
Lowell and Millar had a combined RCAA last year of +32 while Nixon and Hillenbrand had +18. Is that differential worth $1.5M to the Sox.

Thank you Boomer!!! You said what I wanted to say but only better. Yes a trade needs to be done with the Sox. Nixon is a rare commodity. The Sox need to get younger and cheaper. While the Marlin deal is not bad it will still keep us in 2nd place. I have a better deal in mind and stated that in another thread using Trot Nixon. So my vote is:

NO!!

10-23-2002, 09:30 PM	#1
gyb13 NS Omnipresent Brasilian Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Crazy George's playground Posts: 10,903	Nix-ed Boston-Florida deal Florida offered Mike Lowell and Kevin Millar to Boston for Shea Hillenbrand and Trot Nixon, but were rejected: http://espn.go.com/mlb/news/2002/1023/1450096.html Mike Lowell 816 OPS, 24 HR, 92 RBI, 65 BB, 92 SO Hillenbrand 789 OPS, 18 HR, 83 RBI, 25 BB, 95 SO Millar 875 OPS, 16 HR, 57 RBI, 40 BB, 74 SO Nixon 808 OPS, 24 HR, 94 RBI, 65 BB, 109 SO The deal would've saved Florida about a million. If you were Boston, would you have pulled the deal? __________________ Gustavo NDF Moderator Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin

10-23-2002, 09:51 PM	#3
Duque NetShrine's Desperado Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Southern CA Posts: 2,638	In a second. Millar would give them a much better option at 1B, and Lowell, while not a great player, is at least better offensively and defensively than Hillenbrand. __________________ Bad Andy It's such a fine line between stupid and clever.

10-24-2002, 12:21 AM	#8
pwdennis NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Winter Springs, FL Posts: 2,503	Nothing to gain for Boston by making this particular deal __________________ "I would submit that if the world survives for a million years, perhaps its finest hour may be that in the last half of the 20th century, when the power to blow up the world rested in the hands of a few men in two very unsophisticated and suspicious countries, we didn't do it, and one American, Richard Nixon, moved the cold war away from permanent confrontation toward victory. How could any wrong that he did compare with that?" - John Sears

10-24-2002, 10:13 AM	#12
KCBOOMER NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Home of the T-Bones Posts: 11,116	Lowell and Millar had a combined RCAA last year of +32 while Nixon and Hillenbrand had +18. Is that differential worth $1.5M to the Sox. __________________ KCBOOMER *Buck O'Neil: The Monarch of Baseball*

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10-23-2002, 09:49 PM	#2
LeGrandOrange Membership Suspended 4/11/04 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Tacoma, WA Posts: 3,783	Only if you dealt Brian Daubach for a guy who played good defense...

10-23-2002, 10:28 PM	#4
SmedIndy NetShrine's Historian Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Zionsville, IN Posts: 10,569	Oh yeah! Duffman makes that trade! However - the BoSox may be mesmerized by the shiny things on the key ring (AVG, RBI) and not what wins...

10-23-2002, 10:34 PM	#5
LeGrandOrange Membership Suspended 4/11/04 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Tacoma, WA Posts: 3,783	Who's going to fill in for Trotman in the OF? I sort of forgot that you needed a 1B and I didn't think that you'd trade for the replacement...

10-23-2002, 10:56 PM	#6
Husier NetShrine All-Star Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Kentucky Posts: 112	I've turned this one over and over and don't know which side I favor, but I think I see why Boston might turn it down. If I'm Boston, I look at it like this: Lowell is 28, Millar is 31. Hillenbrand is 27, Nixon is 28. Offensively, the Marlins have an edge ... not a huge one, but an edge nonetheless. Lowell is a solid defensive 3B. Millar is a 1B being used in the OF, with little defensive value. Hillenbrand is OK at 3B. Nixon is a good RF with the ability to play CF in a pinch. Lowell makes $3.7M in 03. Millar made $900,000 last season and is eligible for arbitration; Nixon made $2.7M and will go to arbitration. Hillenbrand made $260,000 and is not arby-eligible, so he'll get a small bump ($300,000-$400,000?). If Boston makes the deal, they get a little older and probably more expensive, plus open a hole in the OF and take away one of their few lefty bats. The Red Sox can find a 1B-DH easier (or a platoon) and cheaper than they can find someone to play RF.

10-24-2002, 12:16 AM	#7
sweaver Netshrine Cleanup Hitter Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Mountain State Posts: 8,883	No, I don't make that deal if I'm Boston, unless I have a kid ready to play RF. Giving up too much in age and defense. Imagine the ground Damon would have to cover, playing between Ramirez and Millar in the OF?

10-24-2002, 01:26 AM	#10
VNV Nation Membership Suspended 11/19/02 Join Date: May 2002 Location: VNV Nation Posts: 2,952	I turn the deal down as there's no obvious benefit to be had.

10-24-2002, 09:56 AM	#11
WiredTiger Guest Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: The city of Kaline, Cobb and Greenberg Posts: 3,395	I would say no even though I am not a big Shea Hillebrand fan. The Marlins guys are older, more expensive and not much better than the Red Sox players.

10-24-2002, 10:15 AM	#13
tortured angel Guest Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: middle east Posts: 573	Can the Red Sox afford to take on more payroll without getting an obvious upgrade? I don't think this deal makes enough impact to add a million bucks.

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