Sal Yvars Lives In 2002? - Page 4

spitball · 10-14-2002, 01:50 PM

First off the Angels are not , nor have they ever been in the era of Scioscia a conventional wisdom type team.
As I've said a bajillion times, the Angels just plain old rake relief pitching.
They swing at anything close to the strike zone and have been quite succesful at it. They had a team batting avg. of .282. They constantly took the extra base. They don't play by the rules . They don't play safe. The Angels hit the ball where it's pitched. If Glaus listened to Hatcher a little more just think what the numbers would be.
The Angels have one of the all-time defensive catchers as their manager. He knows the game and plays his hunches. But they're not just gut hunches. The Angels have Joe Maddon on the bench. The dude's a numbers cruncher supreme.

VNV Nation · 10-14-2002, 01:52 PM

This thread is a lot like the Angels: A lot of spunk and it's gone a lot farther than most people would have predicted.

soxfan121 · 10-14-2002, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by VNV Nation
This thread is a lot like the Angels: A lot of spunk and it's gone a lot farther than most people would have predicted.

I agree.

And not to belabor the point, but I think it is intellectually lazy to state that the Angels performance can only be explained by luck or by stealing signs. I think it goes deeper than that...deep enough to explore the issues of HOW teams win in the postseason and whether a team in the postseason can truly 'raise its game to another level' with the help of momentum and good fortune.

pathogan · 10-14-2002, 02:47 PM

...gets hot?it is disingenuous to suggest that a team wins because it cheats...They waxed their opponents.they won because they played better

Max Power · 10-14-2002, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by VNV Nation
This thread is a lot like the Angels: A lot of spunk and it's gone a lot farther than most people would have predicted.

Oui...............................

Husier · 10-14-2002, 03:46 PM

Baseball is a game of streaks ... teams go hot and cold all the time. The Angels are in the midst of a very high-profile hot streak, and isn't it fun to watch?

moose · 10-14-2002, 07:10 PM

hey steve- does this mean i've brought you over to my side on the "angels won with heart" discussion?

Max Power · 10-14-2002, 07:15 PM

Moose - if the trend continues in the WS, I'm crossing over to mooselvania, for sure.

Skip · 10-14-2002, 07:25 PM

There absolutely has to be a 'Phantom Tollbooth' crossover to Mooselvania. I need to reread the book; if you haven't it is a great kids book in the absurdist Roald Dahl tradition without being as dark and killing off the characters....

I'm figuring Mooselvania is somehow subject to the 'Awful Dynn'. It might be Awful Dinn. You get the idea.

gyb13 · 10-15-2002, 02:24 AM

i don't think you can take sample size out of the equation... you can probably find other spots in the season in which they were equally as hot against good competition....oakland did it for a while too....it's just about timing...

10-28-2002, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CpUltravox
Mendoza/Karsay/ElDuque/Stanton/Weaver/Mays/Santana/Romero/Hawkins/Jackson away from the Ed in this postseason...
11 Appearances
20 Innings
18 Hits
6 Runs
5 Earned Runs
2 Walks
14 Strikeouts
2.25 ERA
.230 Opposing Batting Average

Mendoza/Karsay/ElDuque/Stanton/Weaver/Mays/Santana/Romero/Hawkins/Jackson at the Ed in this postseason...
16 Appearances
16 1/3 Innings
33 Hits
25 Runs
24 Earned Runs
6 Walks
9 Strikeouts
13.22 ERA
.402 Opposing Batting Average

These are the totals for all the pitchers who pitched at both the Ed and away from it...

The Angels hit better in Pac Bell than they did in the primate's lair- but to be fair, here's the final totals, which are made far more neutral than they were in the AL series...

Mendoza/Karsay/ElDuque/Stanton/Weaver/Mays/Santana/Romero/Hawkins/Jackson/Livan/Witasick/Fultz/Rodriguez/Eyre/Schmidt/Zerbe/Worrell/Rueter/Nen away from the Ed in this postseason...

25 Appearances
46 Innings
53 Hits
23 Runs
20 Earned Runs
13 Walks
33 Strikeouts
3.91 ERA
.277 Opposing Batting Average

Mendoza/Karsay/ElDuque/Stanton/Weaver/Mays/Santana/Romero/Hawkins/Jackson/Livan/Witasick/Fultz/Rodriguez/Eyre/Schmidt/Zerbe/Worrell/Rueter/Nen at the Ed in this postseason...

33 Appearances
41 1/3 Innings
60 Hits
40 Runs
37 Earned Runs
16 Walks
26 Strikeouts
8.06 ERA
.326 Opposing Batting Average

soxfan121 · 10-28-2002, 02:34 PM

[cue Rainman] Stealing signs. Yeah, definitely stealing signs. Have to take it to Wapner, yeah, take it to Wapner. Statistical variance in a small sample size, yeah, statistical variation. Stealing signs. Yeah. [/cue Rainman]

10-28-2002, 02:51 PM

Hey SF -

You mock my stats. You laugh at my stats.

BUT

If two pitchers pitched those exact lines in the first 2 half of a season, only one would make it past the all star break in a MLB uniform.

Unless, of course, the pitcher was Jose Lima, or the uniform was a Rangers uniform... Or if the bad pitcher had a proven track record...

Oh nevermind.

soxfan121 · 10-28-2002, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CpUltravox
Hey SF -

You mock my stats. You laugh at my stats.

BUT

If two pitchers pitched those exact lines in the first 2 half of a season, only one would make it past the all star break in a MLB uniform.

Unless, of course, the pitcher was Jose Lima, or the uniform was a Rangers uniform... Or if the bad pitcher had a proven track record...

Oh nevermind.

For the record CP, I was not mocking you or the stats. To me the stats were accumulated without enough of a sample size to be significant.

More I am mocking the idea that the Angels cheated (or stole signs, whatever the language) to win the World Series. That was the supposition that began this thread and I consider it to be hogwash.

Certainly, the Angels had themselves a historic post-season. But I doubt, even given the statistical evidence, that it happened because they were stealing signs.

10-28-2002, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by soxfan121
For the record CP, I was not mocking you or the stats. To me the stats were accumulated without enough of a sample size to be significant.

More I am mocking the idea that the Angels cheated (or stole signs, whatever the language) to win the World Series. That was the supposition that began this thread and I consider it to be hogwash.

Certainly, the Angels had themselves a historic post-season. But I doubt, even given the statistical evidence, that it happened because they were stealing signs.

I know - I was kidding - sarcasm and Arial font don't go together all that well.

Actually - I'm firmly of the opinion that cheating is a good thing, and if they figured a way to steal signs and hit better - that's a good thing. Even better if they did and no one knew any better except for us conspiracy theorists.

(Cue X-Files Music)

Oh - and if it's just happenstance... I GUESS that's okay too...

10-14-2002, 02:47 PM	#49
pathogan william Blake's Innkeeper Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Brooklyn Posts: 2,828	How can anyone explain how and when a team... ...gets hot?it is disingenuous to suggest that a team wins because it cheats...They waxed their opponents.they won because they played better

10-14-2002, 07:15 PM	#53
Max Power NetShrine Creator & Curator Join Date: May 2002 Location: NetShrine WHQ Posts: 5,548	Moose - if the trend continues in the WS, I'm crossing over to mooselvania, for sure. __________________ Steve, Forum Administrator "They come and they go, Hobbs. They come and they go." That's why there's NetShrine.com

10-15-2002, 02:24 AM	#55
gyb13 NS Omnipresent Brasilian Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Crazy George's playground Posts: 10,903	i don't think you can take sample size out of the equation... you can probably find other spots in the season in which they were equally as hot against good competition....oakland did it for a while too....it's just about timing... __________________ Gustavo NDF Moderator Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin

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10-14-2002, 01:50 PM	#46
spitball Guest Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Studio City, Ca. Posts: 1,751	First off the Angels are not , nor have they ever been in the era of Scioscia a conventional wisdom type team. As I've said a bajillion times, the Angels just plain old rake relief pitching. They swing at anything close to the strike zone and have been quite succesful at it. They had a team batting avg. of .282. They constantly took the extra base. They don't play by the rules . They don't play safe. The Angels hit the ball where it's pitched. If Glaus listened to Hatcher a little more just think what the numbers would be. The Angels have one of the all-time defensive catchers as their manager. He knows the game and plays his hunches. But they're not just gut hunches. The Angels have Joe Maddon on the bench. The dude's a numbers cruncher supreme.

10-14-2002, 01:52 PM	#47
VNV Nation Membership Suspended 11/19/02 Join Date: May 2002 Location: VNV Nation Posts: 2,952	This thread is a lot like the Angels: A lot of spunk and it's gone a lot farther than most people would have predicted.

10-14-2002, 03:46 PM	#51
Husier NetShrine All-Star Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Kentucky Posts: 112	Baseball is a game of streaks ... teams go hot and cold all the time. The Angels are in the midst of a very high-profile hot streak, and isn't it fun to watch?

10-14-2002, 07:10 PM	#52
moose Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Socs Posts: 3,400	hey steve- does this mean i've brought you over to my side on the "angels won with heart" discussion?

10-14-2002, 07:25 PM	#54
Skip NetShrine Vagabond Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Louisville Posts: 7,866	There absolutely has to be a 'Phantom Tollbooth' crossover to Mooselvania. I need to reread the book; if you haven't it is a great kids book in the absurdist Roald Dahl tradition without being as dark and killing off the characters.... I'm figuring Mooselvania is somehow subject to the 'Awful Dynn'. It might be Awful Dinn. You get the idea.

10-28-2002, 02:34 PM	#57
soxfan121 Renounced Membership 7/9/03 Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Live Free Or Die, USA Posts: 1,335	[cue Rainman] Stealing signs. Yeah, definitely stealing signs. Have to take it to Wapner, yeah, take it to Wapner. Statistical variance in a small sample size, yeah, statistical variation. Stealing signs. Yeah. [/cue Rainman]

10-28-2002, 02:51 PM	#58
CpUltravox Posts: n/a	Hey SF - You mock my stats. You laugh at my stats. BUT If two pitchers pitched those exact lines in the first 2 half of a season, only one would make it past the all star break in a MLB uniform. Unless, of course, the pitcher was Jose Lima, or the uniform was a Rangers uniform... Or if the bad pitcher had a proven track record... Oh nevermind.

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