Joe Torre's New York Yankees

[Fuzzy Bear]

Originally Posted by KCBOOMER

I think "blew it" is a little strong. The other teams were professionals and the Yanks didn't give it away. The D'Backs and Marlins took it.

I agree here; the Yankees won the pennant. That they lost in the World Series is only "failure" in the eyes of the Big Stein.

These Yankees are somewhat reminiscent of the 1962-64 Yankees. Those teams won 5 straight pennants, but they did it more because they were the Yankees than any other reason. The 1962 Giants were not a strong opponent. The 1963 Dodgers won the Series 4 straight. The 1964 club wasn't really the best team in the league, but other teams blew it, and the Yankees won the pennant (taking the Cards to 7 games before losing the Series) with many of their stars having BAD years together. (A young stud pitcher named Mel Stottlemyre was called up and went 9-3, bailing them out.)

The holes in RF and at 3B are significant, plus the Yankee rotation will be made over next year. A number of stars are in their early 30s, poised to enter the decline phase of their careers. Just like March, 1965. (Of course, the Big Stein isn't Dan Topping, and free agency can rocket a team from the brink overnight.)

[JamesI]

Originally Posted by Wolf Hopper

2001: http://www.netshrine.com/2001ws.html

2003: http://www.netshrine.com/20031027.html

I'm sticking with the Yankees blowing it.

I can't agree. Steve, can't you just accept maybe they got outplayed in 2001 or 2003? 2001 was closer, a few bloops go the other way and the Yanks win. But neither of these series were decided by the Yankees handing it to a garbage team. Both were good teams that played hard and won against maybe a more talented team.

[captain_napalm]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy Bear

The holes in RF and at 3B are significant, plus the Yankee rotation will be made over next year. A number of stars are in their early 30s, poised to enter the decline phase of their careers. Just like March, 1965. (Of course, the Big Stein isn't Dan Topping, and free agency can rocket a team from the brink overnight.)

Even though free agency may be an option, I would feel much better if the Yanks invested more $$ in scouting and development. They go after the kids with as much zeal as they do FA's, imagine how great they'd be

And they'd probably save $$ in the long run

[Fuzzy Bear]

Originally Posted by captain_napalm

Even though free agency may be an option, I would feel much better if the Yanks invested more $$ in scouting and development. They go after the kids with as much zeal as they do FA's, imagine how great they'd be

And they'd probably save $$ in the long run

They did all that, and came up with Drew Henson!

[Wolf Hopper]

Originally Posted by JamesI

I can't agree. Steve, can't you just accept maybe they got outplayed in 2001 or 2003? 2001 was closer, a few bloops go the other way and the Yanks win. But neither of these series were decided by the Yankees handing it to a garbage team. Both were good teams that played hard and won against maybe a more talented team.

The Yankees were clearly out played in 2001. But, the bottom line is that, despite being out played by far, they had a lead in the 9th inning of Game 7, and blew it - see: Rivera's throw to 2B.

In 2003, statistically, they outplayed the Marlins - although the Marlins played smarter and more clutch.

Neither the Marlins or the Diamondbacks were "garbage" teams - I never said that. Both deserved to win - as they did.

My point is - - the Yankees had chances to win both 2001 and 2003 and they did not take advantage of it - they blew it. No knock on the teams that won and deserved to win.

[Ytown Tribe fan]

I guess another question is: how much does Torre have to do with the Yanks' run anyway.

Look at Joe Torre's Cards. They were successful under Whitey Herzog. They did nothing under Torre. They've been much better under LaRussa.

Is Torre suddenly a better manager now that he's with the Yank$?

[captain_napalm]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy Bear

They did all that, and came up with Drew Henson!

With their $$ & resources, the Yanks should have a steady stream of players coming through the minors, and their system should always be stacked.

[jstu9]

Since 1996, the yankees have made it to the World Series 6 of the 8 times. That is probably the greatest string of seasons in the history of baseball.

Why?

To get there, they had to win 2 other series.

It is laughable to me when some Yankee or Yankee fan somehow thinks this team has struggled or has lost their magic over the last 3 years even though they have made it to the World Series twice.

That is an incredible accomplishment.

Today, it is very unfair to rate a team based on winning a World Series since it is basically a crapshoot. 8 teams in, one will win. 12.5% chance of the Series. And I don't believe baseball is a sport where the best team will win a Best of 5 or Best of 7 series. Just doesn't happen.

I doubt the "Best Team" has won the World Series more than once or twice since 1995.

[Cooper]

Originally Posted by KCBOOMER

Torre has been the perfrect manager for that group. Why people think that makes him an HoFer is beyond me, but he has been superb with this group.

Which I think brings up another question - how does one quantify/qualify a HOF manager? People have been annointing Torre as a HOFer since 1998 and especially after the three in a row. Detractors point to his tenures in STL and across town in NY.

Is Stengel a HOF worthy manager? His stretch with the Yankees was longer than Torre's but he had tenuous jobs with other teams before that.

I actually don't have an answer to offer - I really think a lot of good managers can only be so when they have the horses to succeed (i.e. Phil Jackson in basketball). (with the difference being, of course, that a "bad" manager can undermine the success of a good team).

[sweaver]

A win is a win is a win.....and not winning the next year doesn't take the crown away, now or ever.

[gyb13]

Originally Posted by Wolf Hopper

In 2003, statistically, they outplayed the Marlins

but it's wins that count. they are the weakest link. goodbye.