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Old 12-03-2004, 04:44 PM   #1
Crash Course
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Thumbs up Can This Be Bud's Whooping Stick?

According to paragraph 7 (b) (1) of the uniform player's contract....... a club may terminate a contract if the player should ''fail, refuse or neglect to conform his personal conduct to the standards of good citizenship and good sportsmanship.''

Further, paragraph 3 (a), ''Loyalty,'' reads: ''The player agrees to perform his services hereunder diligently and faithfully, to keep himself in first-class physical condition and to obey the club's training rules, and pledges himself to the American public and to the club to conform to high standards of personal conduct, fair play and good sportsmanship.''

I've read in some reports that the MLBPA believes that these clauses are superseded by the collective bargaining agreement, which stipulates that disciplinary powers rest with the commissioner.

If that is true, then perhaps Bud Selig should take some action on newly fingered juicers Barry Bonds and Jason Giambi? What would Kenesaw Mountain Landis do? (WWKMLD?)

It's a tricky thing because Giambi has admitted whereas Bonds is playing the "I'm too stupid for my shirt" game. Then again, Joe Jackson played the dumb card and he still got the boot with those who confessed in the 1919 case.

It's also a tricky thing because the Yankees would love to get out of Giambi's contract whereas the Giants probably do not want to lose Bonds.

Suspensions the answer? That's probably not the answer in the eyes of MLB. They've wanted to use "3a" for a long time to get out of a long-term deal where the player got fat or screwed up after signing. It's a great out-clause. But, they really needed the case that the MLBPA and the fans could not bitch about..........and, now, Giambi and Bonds may have just presented that one.

If anything, MLB would like to use "3a" as their get out of jail free card. But, again, because one of these guys is Bonds, that's not going to be so simple.

Ball's in Bud's court. Why am I so suspecting to see an E-"C" in the scorecard when it's all said and done?
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- Benny "The Jet" Rodriguez, in The Sandlot

I've been going to games since August 8, 1973....and on August 22, 2004, finally, a foul ball came my way. I had to reach for it, and it deflected off the tip of my right index finger. Shoot, if I was only 4 inches taller!

Have you read The Baseball Same Game?
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Old 12-03-2004, 07:03 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crash Course
...If that is true, then perhaps Bud Selig should take some action on newly fingered juicers Barry Bonds and Jason Giambi?..

Let's not forget Gary Sheffield in all this. He has acknowledged using steroids in the exact same fashion as Bonds - someone gave me the stuff and I used it without knowing it was a steroid. Anything done to Bonds has to apply to Sheffield too, doesn't it? In fact, perhaps moreso, since Sheffield has acknowledged his use publicly, whereas Bonds' only proof of admission is still in the form of illegal leaks of grand jury testimony. There could be legal reasons why the Bonds' admission can't be used yet, but that wouldn't apply to Sheffield.
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Old 12-03-2004, 08:32 PM   #3
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As the Yanks are trying (according to the news) to get out of Giambi's contract, I could see it happening. But not to Bonds.

Or, if Giambi's smart, he could claim the medical issues from 2003 are getting too bad and retire after working out a settlement with the Yanks.
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Old 12-03-2004, 09:16 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Jim Rice
Let's not forget Gary Sheffield in all this. He has acknowledged using steroids in the exact same fashion as Bonds - someone gave me the stuff and I used it without knowing it was a steroid. Anything done to Bonds has to apply to Sheffield too, doesn't it? In fact, perhaps moreso, since Sheffield has acknowledged his use publicly, whereas Bonds' only proof of admission is still in the form of illegal leaks of grand jury testimony. There could be legal reasons why the Bonds' admission can't be used yet, but that wouldn't apply to Sheffield.

I think the difference with Sheffield is that he used a cream, recommended Bonds, reportedly once, as an after surgery treatment - not knowing, again, that it was a designer steroid. Bonds, on the other hand, has a tie (according to the ESPN reports) to using what his trainer got from BALCO back in 2001 (the year he broke the HR record) and has been using it since. That's a four year usage period versus a one time application. Plus, according to the ESPN reports that I saw yesterday, those who knew Bonds' trainer on a casual basis (through World Gym) all knew that he was a steroids dealer - it was that open and obvious. Bonds has known this trainer all of his adult life and was very close to him. If 'almost strangers' knew that the trainer was dealing, Bonds had to know this as well. Plus, on the Dan Patrick show on ESPN Radio today, they said that Bonds is so anal about his body that he would refuse to shake hands with someone there because (as Bonds reportedly said) "I don't want to catch germs." There's so much out there to say that Bonds would never take something into his body with the attitude of "whatever" as he claimed in his testimony - and that there's no way that he could have not known that he friend/trainer was dealing juice. His taking it 'without knowing' excuse is a joke - whereas Sheffield's 'not knowing' excuse could be true.

It's the possibility that Sheffield's ignorance is true - and the reported story that Sheff used it once (compared to years for Bonds) - where the difference is huge, IMO, between the two. And, because of this, what applies to Bonds and Giambi should not be applied to Sheffield.
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Hit Grass, Win Salad

Man, this is baseball. You gotta stop thinking. Just have fun.
- Benny "The Jet" Rodriguez, in The Sandlot

I've been going to games since August 8, 1973....and on August 22, 2004, finally, a foul ball came my way. I had to reach for it, and it deflected off the tip of my right index finger. Shoot, if I was only 4 inches taller!

Have you read The Baseball Same Game?
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Old 12-03-2004, 11:15 PM   #5
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I agree with most of that, but only if they punish Bonds strictly because of his repeat usage or uncover proof that he knew exactly what he was using. But if they punish Bonds and use "ignorance is no defense" as even part of the justification for doing so, they pretty much have to apply that rule to Sheffield as well, albeit probably with a lesser punishment.
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Old 12-03-2004, 11:34 PM   #6
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According to an ESPN report, there's documentation that states Bonds paid $450 for a bottle of Depo-Testosterone. Bonds said he knows nothing about it.

That small peice of information just may be the key for baseball/the world to find out for sure if Barry indeed had no idea that when he used "the cream" and "the clear" - which he admits to using, but not knowing what they were - is true or not. (FWIW, on 20/20 tonight, Victor Conte - who could do voice-overs for Gene Hackman - said that he did indeed give Bonds' trainer the cream and the clear.)

If it can be proven that Barry bought Depo-Testosterone then there goes the claim that he says he had no idea that he was dealing (no pun intended) with performance enhancers.
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Steve, Forum Admin

Hit Grass, Win Salad

Man, this is baseball. You gotta stop thinking. Just have fun.
- Benny "The Jet" Rodriguez, in The Sandlot

I've been going to games since August 8, 1973....and on August 22, 2004, finally, a foul ball came my way. I had to reach for it, and it deflected off the tip of my right index finger. Shoot, if I was only 4 inches taller!

Have you read The Baseball Same Game?
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