What If They Don't Contract?

[Skipper Steve]

Legal and political hurdles make it almost impossible for MLB to contract, as planned, for the 2002 season - - according to most of the "experts" out there. See this for more:

http://usatoday.com/sports/baseball/...ontraction.htm

So, what happens now? Any thoughts?

Betcha they only draw 250,000 - for the season! - in Montreal this year.

I think Bud and his boys shot themselves in the foot on this one.

[BuzzBuzzard]

It is far too early to think the owners have shot themselves in the foot. Even if it doesn't happen this year, it sends a very clear message to the players' assoc. that they are very serious about it. If nothing else, it is scare tactics which can prove valuable. And if a labor agreement can't be reached before the season starts, they don't lose anything in not being able to get this done for 2002. The entire season will be done.

Also, and I have nothing to base this on other than my gut, but I still say this is classic bait and switch. The owners are pressing for contraction only to give it up at the table for something else like a salary cap. Just my hunch.

[CubFan7125]

Bud & Carl may have pissed so many people in the Upper Midwest off that the indy St. Paul Saints could outdraw the Twins next year. The Saints stadium holds roughly 6800. At the end of the season Carl & Bud simply say "See I told you Minnesota couldn't support a pro baseball team". Never mind that they do support it, they just don't like the owner or having guns held to their heads.

A side note, The Saints are a 1st class outfit & that is why they consistently sell-out. This is the team that is co-owned by a consortium including Bill Murray & Mike Veeck. At various times since their 1993 inaugural season Darryl Strawberry, J.D. Drew, Leon Durham, Kevin Millar, Jason Varitek, Rey Ordonez, Jack Morris, Glenn Davis, Hector Villanueva, Doug Dascenzo, Dwight Smith, & Matt Nokes have called Saint Paul home. Not HOF'ers, but not a bad collection of talent either.

The lesson here kids, run an above board organization, don't insult your fans & lie to them, & they will support it.

[sweaver]

I think this contraction stuff was all a negotiating ploy, but one that has backfired because the owners intended to use it to get a salary cap or whatever it is they think they want, but now the MLBPA will say,"you can't do it, why should we bargain it away?" The owners do this every time, misjudge their advantages, and it's mainly because these captains of industry trust too much in their own egos.

[sweaver]

Actually, I think the real ploy of contraction was to threaten the cities into building new ballparks as corporate welfare, and on that front it may work. Most mayors and governors are not as smart as Donald Fehr. Jesse Ventura is audacious enough to make a stand, but I doubt most will follow his lead.

Originally posted by BuzzBuzzard
It is far too early to think the owners have shot themselves in the foot. Even if it doesn't happen this year, it sends a very clear message to the players' assoc. that they are very serious about it. If nothing else, it is scare tactics which can prove valuable.

I'm curious, when you say these scare tactics may prove valuable, to whom? The owners or the players assn.? Or were you saying "valuable" in that it may prove a main point to be discussed later on?

[Skipper Steve]

CF - thanks for the Doug Dascenzo mention. I live for that stuff.

I'm surprised that no one replying - and that there was a lack of reply - with respect to the feelings of major league baseball fans, as a whole.

Personally, I somewhat feel as if I'm being put through the grinder with this stuff - - just like the last CBA process.

One would think with all the negative vibe which was cast upon the fans in '94-'95 and what it took to wash that away, that baseball would have more caution. Unless they feel they can pull a Ripken streak and a McGwire HR chase out of their hat whenever they need it?

[BuzzBuzzard]

Originally posted by Yogi#8Fan
I'm curious, when you say these scare tactics may prove valuable, to whom? The owners or the players assn.? Or were you saying "valuable" in that it may prove a main point to be discussed later on?

To the owners.

[mainsr]

I'm with Buzz. The owners are itching to do SOMETHING to put that uppity MLBPA in its place, fallout be damned. I wonder whether we're going to get a chance to see Hee Seop Choi and Tony Clark outhit Mark Grace and Tino Martinez, or Mike Mussina and Fred Garcia once again outpitch Roger Clemens at all in 2002.

[CubFan7125]

If we can believe anything a car salesman says, and I know I don't, Bud said at his press conference there would be no lockout. That way when the players rebel at the possible loss of jobs & strike, Bud & his boys can say "Look, we tried to save baseball & would not lock them out, & they went on strike anyway, so it's not our fault."

I work in sales at a plastics plant, and if we tried to eliminate warehouse or factory jobs - the guys would strike. This is one of the VERY few occasions where I agree with the MLBPA. Basically these guys are like 2 3yr olds fighting over a Tonka truck. Unfortunately they do not have a Dad to come in & break up this fight.

[Duque]

Originally posted by mainsr
...or Mike Mussina and Fred Garcia once again outpitch Roger Clemens at all in 2002.

Now I know that this issue's been done over and over again, and I do agree with you that Clemens wasn't the right choice (I would've picked Mussina), but this article was pretty interesting:

http://www.baseballprimer.com/articl...-11-23_0.shtml

Basically, it takes into account the fact that Clemens and Mussina played with a very bad defense behind them, while the Seattle pitchers played with a very good one.

[Skipper Steve]

Don't even think of turning this into a Clemens thread guys.

[Duque]

Originally posted by Skipper Steve
Don't even think of turning this into a Clemens thread guys.

My bad. I'll start a new thread, ostensibly about "How Much Defense Affects Pitching."