Say Hey To The New Devil Rey! [merged threads] - Page 2

WiredTiger · 12-17-2002, 03:14 PM

Ordonez sports some of the worst OPS number I think I have ever seen. I think earlier in his career he may have been a good enough fielder to make up for some of that but I don't know if that is true anymore. I think I would rather take a chance on a young player, any young player. Why waste at bats with a guy you know isn't any good?

LeGrandOrange · 12-17-2002, 03:45 PM

When you have no other options, take the guy with a rep. Now granted, they have Felix Escalona, whom they kept as a Rule V'er, but he is NOT ready for the Big League level as a regular. Far from it. Escalona would flirt with the Mendoza line as a part-timer, and may try to get it drunk if he's a regular.

Also, Chris Gomez was likely taking the Russ Johnson role, a role he'd take without argument. So you had to get a replacement.

Sadaharu Oh · 12-17-2002, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by WiredTiger
Ordonez sports some of the worst OPS number I think I have ever seen. I think earlier in his career he may have been a good enough fielder to make up for some of that but I don't know if that is true anymore. I think I would rather take a chance on a young player, any young player. Why waste at bats with a guy you know isn't any good?

Why? Well, read my post. I thought I was clear.

His OPS for '03 is irrelevant, unless one thinks that a shortstop with a good OPS will somehow make the Rays a good team next year.

Fuzzy Bear · 12-17-2002, 07:13 PM

I feel better for the Rays knowing that the Mets are paying most of Rey's salary.

If this will help develop the young pitchers, it may be worth it. The Rays have some serious pitching talent, but it's young and vulnerable. Ordonez is on his way out the ML door. I doubt he'll amount to much in Tampa Bay, but he may fulfill a limited purpose.

gyb13 · 12-18-2002, 01:59 PM

oh-tyan makes a good point IF ordonez returns to defensive shape. and IF that happens, who wins the GG next yr - ARod or Rey?

WiredTiger · 12-18-2002, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sadaharu Oh
Why? Well, read my post. I thought I was clear.

His OPS for '03 is irrelevant, unless one thinks that a shortstop with a good OPS will somehow make the Rays a good team next year.

Is it worth having Ordonez to improve your defense a little if you are taking away playing time from someone who needs playing experience? I guess maybe I don't feel that ORodonez is that much of a difference make on defense anymore.

LeGrandOrange · 12-18-2002, 03:24 PM

Probably Vizquel over both...
I'd contribute more but I can't.

gyb13 · 12-18-2002, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by WiredTiger
Is it worth having Ordonez to improve your defense a little if you are taking away playing time from someone who needs playing experience?

such as?

Sadaharu Oh · 12-19-2002, 02:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gyb13
such as?

I'll second that question.

They have shortstops coming up through the system. Trading for a *good* one will cost them good players, so why create one hole to fill another?

The point of it all is that if a last-place and a contending team both need a shortstop for one season, they *might* need that person for different reasons. It's good to recognize that.

Max Power · 12-19-2002, 07:04 AM

Prediction: By 7/4/03, Ordonez will be out and Antonio Perez will be in at SS for the D'Rays. Watch.

Rey will either be on the bench, DL'ed, or traded.

Sadaharu Oh · 12-19-2002, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Max Power
Prediction: By 7/4/03, Ordonez will be out and Antonio Perez will be in at SS for the D'Rays. Watch.

I'll watch, but I think you'll be wrong. Perez has a far worse injury history -- hasn't totaled 300 ABs over the last *two* seasons. He not only needs time to develop above A-ball, but he needs time to prove that he's healthy.

Maybe I'm overly optimistic, but I think that the Rays have a plan, and part of that plan includes the appropriate development of their many good young players. We'll see.

WiredTiger · 12-19-2002, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gyb13
such as?

They have to have someone that they need to look at. Maybe they should play Hector Luna who they took in the Rule V draft.

LeGrandOrange · 12-19-2002, 04:37 PM

They drafted ANOTHER Rule V shortstop? What the hell is going on out there!

Is Escalona that bad?

WiredTiger · 12-20-2002, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by LeGrandOrange
Now granted, they have Felix Escalona, whom they kept as a Rule V'er, but he is NOT ready for the Big League level as a regular. Far from it. Escalona would flirt with the Mendoza line as a part-timer, and may try to get it drunk if he's a regular.

I think that Ordonez has had a couple of trysts with the Mendoza line himself.

LeGrandOrange · 12-20-2002, 10:09 AM

When he plays a full season, he's around .250. An empty .250 but that's beside the point.

At least he's "established". Of course anytime I use that word I fear I'm going to get some arguments against established players...

12-18-2002, 01:59 PM	#20
gyb13 NS Omnipresent Brasilian Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Crazy George's playground Posts: 10,903	oh-tyan makes a good point IF ordonez returns to defensive shape. and IF that happens, who wins the GG next yr - ARod or Rey? __________________ Gustavo NDF Moderator Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin

12-19-2002, 07:04 AM	#25
Max Power NetShrine Creator & Curator Join Date: May 2002 Location: NetShrine WHQ Posts: 5,548	Prediction: By 7/4/03, Ordonez will be out and Antonio Perez will be in at SS for the D'Rays. Watch. Rey will either be on the bench, DL'ed, or traded. __________________ Steve, Forum Administrator "They come and they go, Hobbs. They come and they go." That's why there's NetShrine.com

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12-17-2002, 03:14 PM	#16
WiredTiger Guest Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: The city of Kaline, Cobb and Greenberg Posts: 3,395	Ordonez sports some of the worst OPS number I think I have ever seen. I think earlier in his career he may have been a good enough fielder to make up for some of that but I don't know if that is true anymore. I think I would rather take a chance on a young player, any young player. Why waste at bats with a guy you know isn't any good?

12-17-2002, 03:45 PM	#17
LeGrandOrange Membership Suspended 4/11/04 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Tacoma, WA Posts: 3,783	When you have no other options, take the guy with a rep. Now granted, they have Felix Escalona, whom they kept as a Rule V'er, but he is NOT ready for the Big League level as a regular. Far from it. Escalona would flirt with the Mendoza line as a part-timer, and may try to get it drunk if he's a regular. Also, Chris Gomez was likely taking the Russ Johnson role, a role he'd take without argument. So you had to get a replacement.

12-17-2002, 07:13 PM	#19
Fuzzy Bear NetShrine's Evangelist Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Living by faith, and not by sight! Posts: 2,194	I feel better for the Rays knowing that the Mets are paying most of Rey's salary. If this will help develop the young pitchers, it may be worth it. The Rays have some serious pitching talent, but it's young and vulnerable. Ordonez is on his way out the ML door. I doubt he'll amount to much in Tampa Bay, but he may fulfill a limited purpose.

12-18-2002, 03:24 PM	#22
LeGrandOrange Membership Suspended 4/11/04 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Tacoma, WA Posts: 3,783	Probably Vizquel over both... I'd contribute more but I can't.

12-19-2002, 04:37 PM	#28
LeGrandOrange Membership Suspended 4/11/04 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Tacoma, WA Posts: 3,783	They drafted ANOTHER Rule V shortstop? What the hell is going on out there! Is Escalona that bad?

12-20-2002, 10:09 AM	#30
LeGrandOrange Membership Suspended 4/11/04 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Tacoma, WA Posts: 3,783	When he plays a full season, he's around .250. An empty .250 but that's beside the point. At least he's "established". Of course anytime I use that word I fear I'm going to get some arguments against established players...

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