The Greatest Leadoff Hitters

sweaver · 01-14-2003, 12:27 PM

We keep coming back to this, so how about a ranking? I'll start:

1. Rickey Henderson

Who would come after Rickey? And in what order? Some candidates include Tim Raines, Richie Ashburn, Wade Boggs, Lou Brock.

KCBOOMER · 01-14-2003, 12:45 PM

Rickey is certainly the best of the last 50 years. before that we would need to know who hit lead-off.

Eddie Collins would certainly be a viable contender if he was a leadoff hitter with an OBA of .424 driven by a career .333 average. Henderson's .402 is certainly excellent but an extra .020 of OBA that is hit-driven is impressive. I assume we all agree a walk, on average, is almot, but not quite as good as a single. Collins also was an excellent base runner with a higher successful steal percentage than Henderson.

Billy Hamilton wouldn't be chopped liver either. An incredible .455 OBA with 900 SB's simply screams at you to have him at the top of the order.

Seems like either of these guys, if they were leadoff hitters, good make every bit the claim Henderson has.

Max Power · 01-14-2003, 04:18 PM

Rickey, Billy Hamilton, Jackie Robinson, and Boggs come to mind.

sweaver · 01-14-2003, 04:43 PM

Eddie Collins was a #3 hitter for most of his career, Jackie hit mostly cleanup.

Fuzzy Bear · 01-14-2003, 05:01 PM

Check this list out:

http://www.baseballreference.com/lea...P_career.shtml

I am surprised as to how FEW on this list are "table-setter types".

Now check this list out:

www.baseballreference.com/leaders/R_career.shtml

The career leaders for runs seem to have more "leadoff" types than the career leaders for OBP. Am I wrong?

In looking for great leadoff men, I thought these lists would be helpful. Instead, these lists indicate that the best OBPs in history are not always the leadoff guy, and the speediest leadoff guy doesn't always score the most runs.

gyb13 · 01-14-2003, 05:58 PM

it makes sense, as the sense of the leadoff hitter as someone who is good on getting on base (as opposed to someone who is fast) is relatively modern.

as for runs scored, the list probably has more to do with leadoff hitters who had lineups proficient at knocking them in.

JamesI · 01-14-2003, 06:19 PM

Tim Raines has to be up there.

Fuzzy Bear · 01-14-2003, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JamesI
Tim Raines has to be up there.

Don Buford ought to be up there as well, at least for peak value.

Golden Bear · 01-14-2003, 06:38 PM

Lou Brock.

Max Power · 01-14-2003, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sweaver
Jackie hit mostly cleanup.

That was a waste.

Golden Bear · 01-14-2003, 06:40 PM

Are we talking all around playing skills, or just pure skills at occupying the leadoff spot in the lineup, with other skills (fielding, etc.) excluded from the discussion?

Golden Bear · 01-14-2003, 06:43 PM

Richie Ashburn, Pete Rose, Craig Biggio, Roberto Alomar, Brett Butler, Dom Dimaggio, George Case.

If fielding contributions count: Luis Aparicio, Pee Wee Reese, Phil Rizzuto, Bert Campaneris.

No rank ordering here; just tossing names out.

Golden Bear · 01-14-2003, 06:45 PM

Still tossing: Earle Combs

sweaver · 01-14-2003, 07:22 PM

I was thinking just as leadoff men, with defense not a concern.

1. Rickey
2. Tim Raines
3. Pete Rose
4. Paul Molitor
5. Lou Brock
6. Richie Ashburn
7. Craig Biggio

Who else?

Golden Bear · 01-14-2003, 07:25 PM

Boggs and Billy Hamilton have to be somewhere on that list, unless you don't consider Boggs a leadoff man. (He batted #2 and #3 a lot too, and late in his career was a #6 hitter.)

01-14-2003, 12:27 PM	#1
sweaver Netshrine Cleanup Hitter Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Mountain State Posts: 8,883	The Greatest Leadoff Hitters We keep coming back to this, so how about a ranking? I'll start: 1. Rickey Henderson Who would come after Rickey? And in what order? Some candidates include Tim Raines, Richie Ashburn, Wade Boggs, Lou Brock.

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01-14-2003, 12:45 PM	#2
KCBOOMER NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Home of the T-Bones Posts: 11,116	Rickey is certainly the best of the last 50 years. before that we would need to know who hit lead-off. Eddie Collins would certainly be a viable contender if he was a leadoff hitter with an OBA of .424 driven by a career .333 average. Henderson's .402 is certainly excellent but an extra .020 of OBA that is hit-driven is impressive. I assume we all agree a walk, on average, is almot, but not quite as good as a single. Collins also was an excellent base runner with a higher successful steal percentage than Henderson. Billy Hamilton wouldn't be chopped liver either. An incredible .455 OBA with 900 SB's simply screams at you to have him at the top of the order. Seems like either of these guys, if they were leadoff hitters, good make every bit the claim Henderson has. __________________ KCBOOMER *Buck O'Neil: The Monarch of Baseball*

01-14-2003, 04:18 PM	#3
Max Power NetShrine Creator & Curator Join Date: May 2002 Location: NetShrine WHQ Posts: 5,548	Rickey, Billy Hamilton, Jackie Robinson, and Boggs come to mind. __________________ Steve, Forum Administrator "They come and they go, Hobbs. They come and they go." That's why there's NetShrine.com

01-14-2003, 04:43 PM	#4
sweaver Netshrine Cleanup Hitter Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Mountain State Posts: 8,883	Eddie Collins was a #3 hitter for most of his career, Jackie hit mostly cleanup.

01-14-2003, 05:01 PM	#5
Fuzzy Bear NetShrine's Evangelist Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Living by faith, and not by sight! Posts: 2,194	Check this list out: http://www.baseballreference.com/lea...P_career.shtml I am surprised as to how FEW on this list are "table-setter types". Now check this list out: www.baseballreference.com/leaders/R_career.shtml The career leaders for runs seem to have more "leadoff" types than the career leaders for OBP. Am I wrong? In looking for great leadoff men, I thought these lists would be helpful. Instead, these lists indicate that the best OBPs in history are not always the leadoff guy, and the speediest leadoff guy doesn't always score the most runs.

01-14-2003, 05:58 PM	#6
gyb13 NS Omnipresent Brasilian Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Crazy George's playground Posts: 10,903	it makes sense, as the sense of the leadoff hitter as someone who is good on getting on base (as opposed to someone who is fast) is relatively modern. as for runs scored, the list probably has more to do with leadoff hitters who had lineups proficient at knocking them in. __________________ Gustavo NDF Moderator Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin

01-14-2003, 06:19 PM	#7
JamesI Netshrine Vacuum Cleaner Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Potsdam, N.Y. Posts: 3,723	Tim Raines has to be up there.

01-14-2003, 06:38 PM	#9
Golden Bear NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Upstate New York Posts: 1,100	Lou Brock.

01-14-2003, 06:40 PM	#11
Golden Bear NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Upstate New York Posts: 1,100	Are we talking all around playing skills, or just pure skills at occupying the leadoff spot in the lineup, with other skills (fielding, etc.) excluded from the discussion?

01-14-2003, 06:43 PM	#12
Golden Bear NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Upstate New York Posts: 1,100	Richie Ashburn, Pete Rose, Craig Biggio, Roberto Alomar, Brett Butler, Dom Dimaggio, George Case. If fielding contributions count: Luis Aparicio, Pee Wee Reese, Phil Rizzuto, Bert Campaneris. No rank ordering here; just tossing names out.

01-14-2003, 06:45 PM	#13
Golden Bear NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Upstate New York Posts: 1,100	Still tossing: Earle Combs

01-14-2003, 07:22 PM	#14
sweaver Netshrine Cleanup Hitter Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Mountain State Posts: 8,883	I was thinking just as leadoff men, with defense not a concern. 1. Rickey 2. Tim Raines 3. Pete Rose 4. Paul Molitor 5. Lou Brock 6. Richie Ashburn 7. Craig Biggio Who else?

01-14-2003, 07:25 PM	#15
Golden Bear NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Upstate New York Posts: 1,100	Boggs and Billy Hamilton have to be somewhere on that list, unless you don't consider Boggs a leadoff man. (He batted #2 and #3 a lot too, and late in his career was a #6 hitter.)

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