White Sox offseason: Why, oh why do they let Williams try to fix it?

sweaver · 12-04-2002, 12:25 PM

Koch for Foulke, Johnson and Valentine.

So, are the two minor leaguers any good?

A poll on Yahoo about who won the Koch/Foulke trade was running about 55% in favor of the White Sox. The power of the Closer, even in the mind of Joe Fan.

BigJon · 12-04-2002, 12:31 PM

Foulke is obvious ly the better pitcher and they get Joe Valentine out of it as well whom I'm sure Beane will turn into a stud pitcher which just a sprinkle of his magic dust.

gyb13 · 12-04-2002, 12:38 PM

I'm not so sold on Valentine...how many minor league relievers really pan out?

Here's where the ChiSox stand:

C Paul, Olivo
1B Konerko
2B Harris
SS Valentin
3B Crede
LF Lee
CF Rowand
RF Ordonez
DH Thomas (FA)
IF Jimenez, Graffanino, Clayton
OF Liefer, Borchard

SP Buehrle, Wright, Garland, Ritchie, Glover, Biddle, Rauch, Parque
RP Koch*, Osuna, Wunsch, Marte, Ginter, Porzio

KCBOOMER · 12-04-2002, 01:55 PM

I wonder if Beane used a condom?

sweaver · 12-04-2002, 02:34 PM

So, do the Chisox go after Ivan Rodriguez, or put their eggs in Josh Paul's basket?

gyb13 · 12-04-2002, 02:42 PM

boom -

he better have, or else baseball owners would be lining up to collect his sperm and clone him

sweav - they might be willing to give it to miguel olivo full-time, no?

Fuzzy Bear · 12-04-2002, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sweaver
Koch for Foulke, Johnson and Valentine.

So, are the two minor leaguers any good?

A poll on Yahoo about who won the Koch/Foulke trade was running about 55% in favor of the White Sox. The power of the Closer, even in the mind of Joe Fan.

Some of the logic here may be that Koch, the "great closer" will be of more help to the starting pitching core than would Foulke, and any bullpen-by-committee.

They may be right. A team can sometimes improve itself in a trade in which they give up more talent than they take in if the talent taken in rearranges the team to where there are fewer gaps. This trade may be a talent re-arrangement situation that may work well for the Sox, at least in the short run.

sweaver · 12-14-2002, 10:19 AM

The White Sox' 40-man roster, as of the beginning of the Winter Meetings:
Pitchers (23)
Jon Adkins
Edwin Almonte
Rocky Biddle
Mark Buehrle
Felix Diaz
Jon Garland
Matt Ginter
Gary Glover
Billy Koch
Delvis Lantigua
Corwin Malone
Damaso Marte
Arnaldo Munoz
Antonio Osuna
Jim Parque
Mike Porzio
Jon Rauch
Todd Ritchie
Dave Sanders
Josh Stewart
Brian West
Danny Wright
Kelly Wunsch

Catchers (2)
Miguel Olivo
Josh Paul

Infielders (10)
Joe Crede
Jason Dellaero
Tony Graffanino
Willie Harris
Tim Hummel
D'Angelo Jimenez
Paul Konerko
Jeff Liefer
Frank Thomas
Jose Valentin

Outfielders (4)
Joe Borchard
Carlos Lee
Magglio Ordonez
Aaron Rowand

gyb13 · 01-09-2003, 07:41 PM

the white sox have been surprisingly quiet this off-season (other than the koch-foulke trade and the buehrle contract negotiations). they're a team I feel that, with a couple of additions out of the available crop, could make a push in a weak division

poorme · 01-10-2003, 08:29 AM

they might pick up a bargain basement starter, but not much else. they might as well see what they've got before making any big changes. the roster's pretty much set except for the bottom of the rotation.

WiredTiger · 01-10-2003, 09:08 AM

I am not quite sure what the White Sox are doing. It seems that Foulke had really fallen out of favor in Chicago for some reason. He pitched pretty well last year even though he lost his closers job. The White Sox have enough parts in place that they should probably try to build for now. The AL Central is weak and adding a few parts would move them into contention. The problem is that Williams seems to be treading water. Trading for Ritchie didn't help. Koch for Foulke didn't really improve the team that much either.

poorme · 01-10-2003, 09:29 AM

It's all about the $$$. You can't compete at $60-$70 million, so you might as well keep the payroll at $40 mil. At least that's their reasoning. Every time Reinsdorf has "gone for it" he's been burned -- Tom Seaver, Albert Belle, David Wells.

Manuel/Williams never liked Foulke. A couple of his major meltdowns early last year really let the wind out of the season. As some of you might know, if you make a major gaffe at work, your boss does not quickly forget...

gyb13 · 01-13-2003, 12:44 PM

in that division, you can compete almost regardless of payroll. I think they need someone to stabilize the rotation behind Buehrle to take some pressure off the young guns (Garland, Wright, Rauch)

sweaver · 01-13-2003, 02:11 PM

There are numerous such arms available: Rick Helling, Ismael Valdes, etc.

poorme · 01-13-2003, 02:47 PM

they think they can compete within the division with the team they have.

in case you guys haven't noticed reinsdorf is CHEAP. he's not going to sign some guy for a few million bucks that won't make a difference anyway. that's a few million that could go into his pocket.

12-04-2002, 12:25 PM	#1
sweaver Netshrine Cleanup Hitter Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Mountain State Posts: 8,883	White Sox offseason: Why, oh why do they let Williams try to fix it? Koch for Foulke, Johnson and Valentine. So, are the two minor leaguers any good? A poll on Yahoo about who won the Koch/Foulke trade was running about 55% in favor of the White Sox. The power of the Closer, even in the mind of Joe Fan.

12-04-2002, 12:31 PM	#2
BigJon NetShrine Fan Favorite Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 76	Kenny Williams gets Jobbed Again Foulke is obvious ly the better pitcher and they get Joe Valentine out of it as well whom I'm sure Beane will turn into a stud pitcher which just a sprinkle of his magic dust.

12-04-2002, 12:38 PM	#3
gyb13 NS Omnipresent Brasilian Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Crazy George's playground Posts: 10,903	I'm not so sold on Valentine...how many minor league relievers really pan out? Here's where the ChiSox stand: C Paul, Olivo 1B Konerko 2B Harris SS Valentin 3B Crede LF Lee CF Rowand RF Ordonez DH Thomas (FA) IF Jimenez, Graffanino, Clayton OF Liefer, Borchard SP Buehrle, Wright, Garland, Ritchie, Glover, Biddle, Rauch, Parque RP Koch*, Osuna, Wunsch, Marte, Ginter, Porzio __________________ Gustavo NDF Moderator Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin

12-04-2002, 01:55 PM	#4
KCBOOMER NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Home of the T-Bones Posts: 11,116	I wonder if Beane used a condom? __________________ KCBOOMER *Buck O'Neil: The Monarch of Baseball*

12-04-2002, 02:42 PM	#6
gyb13 NS Omnipresent Brasilian Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Crazy George's playground Posts: 10,903	boom - he better have, or else baseball owners would be lining up to collect his sperm and clone him sweav - they might be willing to give it to miguel olivo full-time, no? __________________ Gustavo NDF Moderator Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin

12-04-2002, 02:34 PM	#5
sweaver Netshrine Cleanup Hitter Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Mountain State Posts: 8,883	So, do the Chisox go after Ivan Rodriguez, or put their eggs in Josh Paul's basket?

12-14-2002, 10:19 AM	#8
sweaver Netshrine Cleanup Hitter Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Mountain State Posts: 8,883	The White Sox' 40-man roster, as of the beginning of the Winter Meetings: Pitchers (23) Jon Adkins Edwin Almonte Rocky Biddle Mark Buehrle Felix Diaz Jon Garland Matt Ginter Gary Glover Billy Koch Delvis Lantigua Corwin Malone Damaso Marte Arnaldo Munoz Antonio Osuna Jim Parque Mike Porzio Jon Rauch Todd Ritchie Dave Sanders Josh Stewart Brian West Danny Wright Kelly Wunsch Catchers (2) Miguel Olivo Josh Paul Infielders (10) Joe Crede Jason Dellaero Tony Graffanino Willie Harris Tim Hummel D'Angelo Jimenez Paul Konerko Jeff Liefer Frank Thomas Jose Valentin Outfielders (4) Joe Borchard Carlos Lee Magglio Ordonez Aaron Rowand

01-09-2003, 07:41 PM	#9
gyb13 NS Omnipresent Brasilian Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Crazy George's playground Posts: 10,903	the white sox have been surprisingly quiet this off-season (other than the koch-foulke trade and the buehrle contract negotiations). they're a team I feel that, with a couple of additions out of the available crop, could make a push in a weak division __________________ Gustavo NDF Moderator Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin

01-10-2003, 08:29 AM	#10
poorme Guest Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: washington dc Posts: 2,625	they might pick up a bargain basement starter, but not much else. they might as well see what they've got before making any big changes. the roster's pretty much set except for the bottom of the rotation.

01-10-2003, 09:08 AM	#11
WiredTiger Guest Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: The city of Kaline, Cobb and Greenberg Posts: 3,395	I am not quite sure what the White Sox are doing. It seems that Foulke had really fallen out of favor in Chicago for some reason. He pitched pretty well last year even though he lost his closers job. The White Sox have enough parts in place that they should probably try to build for now. The AL Central is weak and adding a few parts would move them into contention. The problem is that Williams seems to be treading water. Trading for Ritchie didn't help. Koch for Foulke didn't really improve the team that much either.

01-10-2003, 09:29 AM	#12
poorme Guest Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: washington dc Posts: 2,625	It's all about the $$$. You can't compete at $60-$70 million, so you might as well keep the payroll at $40 mil. At least that's their reasoning. Every time Reinsdorf has "gone for it" he's been burned -- Tom Seaver, Albert Belle, David Wells. Manuel/Williams never liked Foulke. A couple of his major meltdowns early last year really let the wind out of the season. As some of you might know, if you make a major gaffe at work, your boss does not quickly forget...

01-13-2003, 12:44 PM	#13
gyb13 NS Omnipresent Brasilian Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Crazy George's playground Posts: 10,903	in that division, you can compete almost regardless of payroll. I think they need someone to stabilize the rotation behind Buehrle to take some pressure off the young guns (Garland, Wright, Rauch) __________________ Gustavo NDF Moderator Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin

01-13-2003, 02:11 PM	#14
sweaver Netshrine Cleanup Hitter Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Mountain State Posts: 8,883	There are numerous such arms available: Rick Helling, Ismael Valdes, etc.

01-13-2003, 02:47 PM	#15
poorme Guest Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: washington dc Posts: 2,625	they think they can compete within the division with the team they have. in case you guys haven't noticed reinsdorf is CHEAP. he's not going to sign some guy for a few million bucks that won't make a difference anyway. that's a few million that could go into his pocket.

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