Thome Signs With Phillies

gyb13 · 12-02-2002, 01:56 PM

Thome reportedly chooses Philadelphia:

http://espn.go.com/mlb/news/2002/1202/1470010.html

Ytown Tribe fan · 12-02-2002, 02:10 PM

Good! He has a shot at a Ring while he's still effective.

FWIW, Thome's top 5 comps through age 31: Kiner, Belle, Canseco, McCovey, Colavito. Kiner was through at 32; Belle made it to 33; Canseco was effectively done after hitting 34; Rocky was done after hitting 32. Only Stretch was worth anything after his 34th b-day. Dick Allen is Thome's 6th best comp -- he couldn't hit a lick after 32.

Good luck, Jim.

penguin12 · 12-02-2002, 02:32 PM

I'm disappointed, but the Indians gave it a good try. Let the full rebuilding begin. I'd be surprised if Burks doesn't demand a trade! I really hope people don't bad-mouth Thome for his decision.

NCFella19 · 12-02-2002, 04:57 PM

Wow. This sucks.

So much for the loyalty, etc. Money cures all ills it seems.

.210 in April, 2 HR's in April, a stiff back playing on that turf with no DH, and 50,000 booing Philly fans will make him regret this decision.

Again. This sucks.

plasticbryan · 12-02-2002, 05:08 PM

I wish I could add something to NCfella19's post, but, I can't.

This sucks.

gyb13 · 12-02-2002, 06:54 PM

the deal should be official tomorrow, pending a physical.

if you're Tom Glavine, does it make a difference?

NCFella19 · 12-02-2002, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gyb13
the deal should be official tomorrow, pending a physical.

Say for the sake of argument, Thome FAILS a physical due to his back ills.

Any chance Philly rescinds the deal and he returns to Cleveland where he belongs (and I can again have a Jim Thome avatar)?

(I'm grasping at any straw that I can.)

Sadaharu Oh · 12-03-2002, 02:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by NCFella19
Wow. This sucks.

So much for the loyalty, etc. Money cures all ills it seems.

.210 in April, 2 HR's in April, a stiff back playing on that turf with no DH, and 50,000 booing Philly fans will make him regret this decision.

I don't think that the Phillie fans will have much of a reason to boo this year. If they add one quality SP, why would they? Fans don't generally boo pennant winners.

NCFella19 · 12-03-2002, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sadaharu Oh
I don't think that the Phillie fans will have much of a reason to boo this year. If they add one quality SP, why would they? Fans don't generally boo pennant winners.

Ah yes, but this is PHILADELPHIA. Warranted or not, their fans are historically a bit......um......testy and impatient. Pennants aren't rewarded in April, when their newest multi-millionaire hired gun is hitting .210 and striking out facing all new pitchers. So I think they'll be a whole lotta booin' goin' on.

OaktownTribeFan · 12-03-2002, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sadaharu Oh
I don't think that the Phillie fans will have much of a reason to boo this year. If they add one quality SP, why would they? Fans don't generally boo pennant winners.

They booed Mike Schmidt, so they'd have no problem booing a classic slow-starter like Thome. When he's floundering and flailing at air early in the season, they'll boo him. And I won't mind.

Why? Because he's the latest in a long line of hypocrites. He preached all last summer about how much the Indians meant to him and how little the money would sway him, and then we saw yesterday what's really important to Mr. Thome. Like Johnny Carson used to say, "May the bird of paradise fly up his nose."

plasticbryan · 12-03-2002, 01:56 PM

As much as I would like to rail against Jim for taking the money after saying how little money would sway him, I have to say that $30,000,000 is not "little money." At least that is how I interpret the dollar difference in the two contracts.

I still contend that the Indians management blew it when they didn't get things settled last year, before he became a free agent. I think that ownership never had any intention of paying big money to Thome, they just wanted to look good in the eyes of the fans. If I were to tell you that I would pay 50% more than your current longtime employer, but I would need six years instead of five, how many of you would turn me down?

I do not know all the particulars of the two offers, there could be some interesting perks that would make the two closer in value than the appear to be. If so, then I apologize to the Dolans (I am sure they'll be able to sleep easier).

Good luck Jim!

OaktownTribeFan · 12-03-2002, 02:22 PM

Bryan, I seriously doubt that Thome or his agent would have negotiated with Dolan/Shapiro before the season. Thome knew that, at the very least, he could leverage another team's offer in order to jack up what the Indians would offer. So it was inevitable that he would seek free agency.

The Indians offered him at least $12 million per year over 5 years. That's not exactly chump change. The problem is once Philly got into the bidding, they were bound & determined to blow any Indians offer out of the water.

I just wish that, for once, a player would admit that he's taking the offer for the money, and quit giving us all that hogwash about how much he loves Cleveland and the fans. Just admit it. Any
average, working person could understand going for the gold.

OaktownTribeFan · 12-03-2002, 02:33 PM

I really don't know why I'm rooting for the Indians anymore. There is only one player who commands my respect, Omar Vizquel. I used to like Thome, but not after his antics of the last few months. The rest of the team is basically a bunch of nobodies. Maybe there are some good pitchers coming up, maybe not.

It's like Jerry Seinfeld once said- "We are just rooting for laundry, not the players actually wearing it." We're just rooting for s at this point.

I like the game of baseball, and some of the teams as a whole, like the Giants & A's. But which player can you seriously get behind these days? Even if you do root for some of them, they're going to be gone in a few years anyway.

plasticbryan · 12-03-2002, 03:17 PM

Oaktown,

I am sorry that you feel so jaded by this experience. I don't have the depth of feeling you do for this team. That is, I don't feel as betrayed by Thome as you. It might be because I can only follow them from a distance, so everything is buffered and I am not surrounded by other tribe fans.

Ytown Tribe fan · 12-03-2002, 05:56 PM

It wasn't all about the money. Really.

Look, the Tribe offered $62 M for 5 years, PLUS options on his 6th and 7th years at AT LEAST that annual amount, if he performed well enough, PLUS luxury box seating for his family and friends worth at least $250,000 a season.

If you add it all up AND he meets incentives, it's worth just about what the Phillies offered ($87 M over 6 years), with the bonus that he would be a local legend with a statue and part of the park named after him etc.

No, it's about winning right now, uncertainty about his own future (he'll be 38 in 6 years), and pressure from the players and their wives and from his own agent.

Manny left for the same reason. The Tribe offered Manny slightly MORE overall than Boston did (if you add interest on deferred income). Manny left because his agent told him to, since HIS up-front cut would be greater.

Every FA gets phone calls from Glavine and his buddies and the FA's wife gets calls from the players' wives, basically urging them to do what's best for ALL the players under the current salary structure.

Big Mac and Gwynn stayed put for less, against enormous pressure, but they were legends already. Thome's just one of the guys, like Giambi.

We'll never know if Jim and Andrea really wanted to stay in Cleveland, as they said they did. We only know that the Tribe made a bona fide effort to keep him (or else they would have traded him for prospects last summer); amd that Thome wasn't about to face his teammates and apologize for costing THEM money in the future; and that Thome wants to win sooner not later and isn't convinced that he'll be any good in 6 years.

12-02-2002, 01:56 PM	#1
gyb13 NS Omnipresent Brasilian Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Crazy George's playground Posts: 10,903	decision! Thome reportedly chooses Philadelphia: http://espn.go.com/mlb/news/2002/1202/1470010.html __________________ Gustavo NDF Moderator Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin

12-02-2002, 04:57 PM	#4
NCFella19 All-NetShrine Team Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 417	Wow. This sucks. So much for the loyalty, etc. Money cures all ills it seems. .210 in April, 2 HR's in April, a stiff back playing on that turf with no DH, and 50,000 booing Philly fans will make him regret this decision. Again. This sucks. __________________ "It's not the high price of stardom that bothers me, it's the high price of mediocrity." -- Bill Veeck

12-02-2002, 06:54 PM	#6
gyb13 NS Omnipresent Brasilian Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Crazy George's playground Posts: 10,903	the deal should be official tomorrow, pending a physical. if you're Tom Glavine, does it make a difference? __________________ Gustavo NDF Moderator Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin

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12-02-2002, 02:10 PM	#2
Ytown Tribe fan Guest Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Scrappers territory Posts: 2,515	Good! He has a shot at a Ring while he's still effective. FWIW, Thome's top 5 comps through age 31: Kiner, Belle, Canseco, McCovey, Colavito. Kiner was through at 32; Belle made it to 33; Canseco was effectively done after hitting 34; Rocky was done after hitting 32. Only Stretch was worth anything after his 34th b-day. Dick Allen is Thome's 6th best comp -- he couldn't hit a lick after 32. Good luck, Jim.

12-02-2002, 02:32 PM	#3
penguin12 NetShrine Fan Favorite Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 86	I'm disappointed, but the Indians gave it a good try. Let the full rebuilding begin. I'd be surprised if Burks doesn't demand a trade! I really hope people don't bad-mouth Thome for his decision.

12-02-2002, 05:08 PM	#5
plasticbryan NetShrine Rookie Of The Year Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 37	I wish I could add something to NCfella19's post, but, I can't. This sucks.

12-03-2002, 01:56 PM	#11
plasticbryan NetShrine Rookie Of The Year Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 37	As much as I would like to rail against Jim for taking the money after saying how little money would sway him, I have to say that $30,000,000 is not "little money." At least that is how I interpret the dollar difference in the two contracts. I still contend that the Indians management blew it when they didn't get things settled last year, before he became a free agent. I think that ownership never had any intention of paying big money to Thome, they just wanted to look good in the eyes of the fans. If I were to tell you that I would pay 50% more than your current longtime employer, but I would need six years instead of five, how many of you would turn me down? I do not know all the particulars of the two offers, there could be some interesting perks that would make the two closer in value than the appear to be. If so, then I apologize to the Dolans (I am sure they'll be able to sleep easier). Good luck Jim!

12-03-2002, 02:22 PM	#12
OaktownTribeFan Inducted Into The NetShrine Assembly of Fame Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: The Bullpen Posts: 529	Bryan, I seriously doubt that Thome or his agent would have negotiated with Dolan/Shapiro before the season. Thome knew that, at the very least, he could leverage another team's offer in order to jack up what the Indians would offer. So it was inevitable that he would seek free agency. The Indians offered him at least $12 million per year over 5 years. That's not exactly chump change. The problem is once Philly got into the bidding, they were bound & determined to blow any Indians offer out of the water. I just wish that, for once, a player would admit that he's taking the offer for the money, and quit giving us all that hogwash about how much he loves Cleveland and the fans. Just admit it. Any average, working person could understand going for the gold.

12-03-2002, 02:33 PM	#13
OaktownTribeFan Inducted Into The NetShrine Assembly of Fame Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: The Bullpen Posts: 529	I really don't know why I'm rooting for the Indians anymore. There is only one player who commands my respect, Omar Vizquel. I used to like Thome, but not after his antics of the last few months. The rest of the team is basically a bunch of nobodies. Maybe there are some good pitchers coming up, maybe not. It's like Jerry Seinfeld once said- "We are just rooting for laundry, not the players actually wearing it." We're just rooting for s at this point. I like the game of baseball, and some of the teams as a whole, like the Giants & A's. But which player can you seriously get behind these days? Even if you do root for some of them, they're going to be gone in a few years anyway.

12-03-2002, 03:17 PM	#14
plasticbryan NetShrine Rookie Of The Year Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 37	Oaktown, I am sorry that you feel so jaded by this experience. I don't have the depth of feeling you do for this team. That is, I don't feel as betrayed by Thome as you. It might be because I can only follow them from a distance, so everything is buffered and I am not surrounded by other tribe fans.

12-03-2002, 05:56 PM	#15
Ytown Tribe fan Guest Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Scrappers territory Posts: 2,515	It wasn't all about the money. Really. Look, the Tribe offered $62 M for 5 years, PLUS options on his 6th and 7th years at AT LEAST that annual amount, if he performed well enough, PLUS luxury box seating for his family and friends worth at least $250,000 a season. If you add it all up AND he meets incentives, it's worth just about what the Phillies offered ($87 M over 6 years), with the bonus that he would be a local legend with a statue and part of the park named after him etc. No, it's about winning right now, uncertainty about his own future (he'll be 38 in 6 years), and pressure from the players and their wives and from his own agent. Manny left for the same reason. The Tribe offered Manny slightly MORE overall than Boston did (if you add interest on deferred income). Manny left because his agent told him to, since HIS up-front cut would be greater. Every FA gets phone calls from Glavine and his buddies and the FA's wife gets calls from the players' wives, basically urging them to do what's best for ALL the players under the current salary structure. Big Mac and Gwynn stayed put for less, against enormous pressure, but they were legends already. Thome's just one of the guys, like Giambi. We'll never know if Jim and Andrea really wanted to stay in Cleveland, as they said they did. We only know that the Tribe made a bona fide effort to keep him (or else they would have traded him for prospects last summer); amd that Thome wasn't about to face his teammates and apologize for costing THEM money in the future; and that Thome wants to win sooner not later and isn't convinced that he'll be any good in 6 years.

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