Modern Day Workhorses = Tomorrow's Glue

Max Power · 11-02-2002, 11:30 PM

Since 1973, most consectutive seasons of BATTERS FACED >= 1000

Code:

T1   Rick Reuschel            1973-80    8   
T1   Phil Niekro              1973-80    8   
T1   Steve Carlton            1973-80    8   
T4   Vida Blue                1973-79    7   
T4   Frank Viola              1984-90    7   
T6   Fernando Valenzuela      1982-87    6   
T6   Jack Morris              1982-87    6   
T6   Greg Maddux              1988-93    6   
T9   Mike Torrez              1975-79    5   
T9   Mike Witt                1984-88    5   
T9   Dave Stewart             1987-91    5

This is an interesting list.
1. I never would have put Reuschel on top of the list - without looking.
2. The three lefties in the middle - Blue, Viola, and Fernando - paid the price for the heavy use.
3. No secret why Mike Witt melted down in 1989. Ditto Torrez in 1980.
4. The short seasons in 1994 and 1995 just may have been a blessing to Maddux.

Only guys to face 1000+ last year were the Unit, Schilling, and

Tanyon Sturtze. (Roy Halladay was close.)

Worth watching those guys in 2003 for after-effects.........

moose · 11-02-2002, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Max Power
Only guys to face 1000+ last year were the Unit, Schilling, and Tanyon Sturtze. (Roy Halladay was close.)

Worth watching those guys in 2003 for after-effects.........

i'll mostly be watching sturtze.

unit isnt human and schilling has a surgically-bionic arm. (mmm.... surgically-bionic arm...)

Max Power · 11-02-2002, 11:50 PM

Since 1996, most consectutive seasons of BATTERS FACED >= 900

Code:


1    Tom Glavine              1996-02    7   
2    Brad Radke               1996-01    6   
T3   Kevin Brown              1996-00    5   
T3   Mike Hampton             1997-01    5   
T3   Randy Johnson            1998-02    5   
T6   Scott Erickson           1996-99    4   
T6   Greg Maddux              1998-01    4   
T6   Rick Helling             1998-01    4

Radke, Brown, Hampton, Erickson............

yeah, there's a trend there.

How many would have put Glavine on top, ahead of Unit and Schilling, and others?

tortured angel · 11-03-2002, 12:19 AM

To face that many batters you have to give up some baserunners.

pwdennis · 11-03-2002, 09:04 AM

Interesting thread - I'm not sure what it proves though. The all-time list of seasons facing over 900 batters largely tracks the all-time IP leaders

001 Cy Young 19
002 Walter Johnson 18
T03 Phil Niekro 17
T03 Warren Spahn 17
T03 Don Sutton 17
006 Steve Carlton 16
T07 Tom Seaver 15
T07 Bert Blyleven 15
T07 Grover C Alexander 15
T07 Gaylord Perry 15
T11 Early Wynn 14
T11 Christy Mathewson 14
T11 Eddie Plank 14
T11 Red Ruffing 14
T15 Pud Galvin 13
T15 Kid Nichols 13
T15 Bobo Newsom 13
T15 Robin Roberts 13
T19 Earl Whitehill 12
T19 Lefty Grove 12
T19 Paul Derringer 12
T19 Jim Kaat 12
T19 Claude Osteen 12
T19 Hooks Dauss 12
T19 Jim Bunning 12
T19 Nolan Ryan 12
T19 Don Drysdale 12
T19 Burleigh Grimes 12
T19 Ferguson Jenkins 12
T19 Bob Gibson 12

moose · 11-03-2002, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by pwdennis
Interesting thread - I'm not sure what it proves though. The all-time list of seasons facing over 900 batters largely tracks the all-time IP leaders

it shows that people who throw a lot of innings see a lot of batters over their career.

i'd be interested in the batters faced per inning stats for the all time IP leaders...

Max Power · 11-03-2002, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by pwdennis
Interesting thread - I'm not sure what it proves though. The all-time list of seasons facing over 900 batters largely tracks the all-time IP leaders

But, how many on the list you shared have done it 5+ years in a row?

That's the key for me - - - season after season leads to a good chance of burnout.

nyy26wc · 11-03-2002, 10:40 AM

This could be a chicken or egg situation.

A pitcher who proves that he can pitch a lot year after year will continue to face a lot of batters per season until he's through.

It could be problematic to easily separate out pitchers who stopped facing a lot of batters because they were through being productive and pitchers who stopped being productive because they faced a lot of batters.

Also, in the Maddux case, I don't think the 1994 season being seliged could have saved his career. He's able to keep his BFP lower by being so far above the league in allowing baserunners. The fewer runners you allow, the fewer batters you have to face.

moose · 11-03-2002, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by nyy26wc
The fewer runners you allow, the fewer batters you have to face.

unless you have a 100% baserunner ---> double play conversion rate (and don't allow 2-out baserunners)

VNV Nation · 11-03-2002, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by moose
unless you have a 100% baserunner ---> double play conversion rate (and don't allow 2-out baserunners)

KCBOOMER · 11-04-2002, 12:39 PM

The insistence on five consecutive years makes this a little harder. A number of things could cause a pitcher not to be able to face as many men as in years past. The strike of 1994 really comes to mind

Don Sutton, Steve Carlton, Phil Niekro, Gaylord Perry, Tom Seaver, Warren Spahn, Don Drysdale, and Fergie Jenkins and had streaks of 8 season or more of 1000 BF's.

I think this "1000 BF's" being important is moot. Guys just won't face that many batters anymore with the 5 day rotations and rampant use of relievers.

pathogan · 11-04-2002, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pwdennis
Interesting thread - I'm not sure what it proves though. The all-time list of seasons facing over 900 batters largely tracks the all-time IP leaders

001 Cy Young 19
002 Walter Johnson 18
T03 Phil Niekro 17
T03 Warren Spahn 17
T03 Don Sutton 17
006 Steve Carlton 16
T07 Tom Seaver 15
T07 Bert Blyleven 15
T07 Grover C Alexander 15
T07 Gaylord Perry 15
T11 Early Wynn 14
T11 Christy Mathewson 14
T11 Eddie Plank 14
T11 Red Ruffing 14
T15 Pud Galvin 13
T15 Kid Nichols 13
T15 Bobo Newsom 13
T15 Robin Roberts 13
T19 Earl Whitehill 12
T19 Lefty Grove 12
T19 Paul Derringer 12
T19 Jim Kaat 12
T19 Claude Osteen 12
T19 Hooks Dauss 12
T19 Jim Bunning 12
T19 Nolan Ryan 12
T19 Don Drysdale 12
T19 Burleigh Grimes 12
T19 Ferguson Jenkins 12
T19 Bob Gibson 12

thoase are some pretty good pitchers there...as for unit being subhuman, pitchers get old very very quickly.This year will be interesting for Johnson...

VNV Nation · 11-04-2002, 02:16 PM

all pitchers tend to break down

pitchers who can pitch to 1,000 batters or 250 innings or 200 innings or 800 batters have already proven to be more durable than the thousands of other pitchers who break down before they can reach those marks. i'm not really sure how you could use this data in any meaningful way.

e.g. looking at the list of guys with consecutive seasons of 900+ batters faced, you'll see most of these guys were extremely durable and had hugicle careers. one might infer from this that the key to staying healthy and having a long career is to make sure you face 900 batters.

pwdennis · 11-04-2002, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pathogan
thoase are some pretty good pitchers there...as for unit being subhuman, pitchers get old very very quickly.This year will be interesting for Johnson...

I'm sure you meant superhuman not subhuman

Skip · 11-04-2002, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pwdennis
I'm sure you meant superhuman not subhuman

Yes. If you want to discuss a subhuman unit, there's an 'King' related thread in the SOCS right now.

11-02-2002, 11:30 PM	#1
Max Power NetShrine Creator & Curator Join Date: May 2002 Location: NetShrine WHQ Posts: 5,548	Modern Day Workhorses = Tomorrow's Glue Since 1973, most consectutive seasons of BATTERS FACED >= 1000 Code: T1 Rick Reuschel 1973-80 8 T1 Phil Niekro 1973-80 8 T1 Steve Carlton 1973-80 8 T4 Vida Blue 1973-79 7 T4 Frank Viola 1984-90 7 T6 Fernando Valenzuela 1982-87 6 T6 Jack Morris 1982-87 6 T6 Greg Maddux 1988-93 6 T9 Mike Torrez 1975-79 5 T9 Mike Witt 1984-88 5 T9 Dave Stewart 1987-91 5 This is an interesting list. 1. I never would have put Reuschel on top of the list - without looking. 2. The three lefties in the middle - Blue, Viola, and Fernando - paid the price for the heavy use. 3. No secret why Mike Witt melted down in 1989. Ditto Torrez in 1980. 4. The short seasons in 1994 and 1995 just may have been a blessing to Maddux. Only guys to face 1000+ last year were the Unit, Schilling, and Tanyon Sturtze. (Roy Halladay was close.) Worth watching those guys in 2003 for after-effects......... __________________ Steve, Forum Administrator "They come and they go, Hobbs. They come and they go." That's why there's NetShrine.com

11-02-2002, 11:50 PM	#3
Max Power NetShrine Creator & Curator Join Date: May 2002 Location: NetShrine WHQ Posts: 5,548	Since 1996, most consectutive seasons of BATTERS FACED >= 900 Code: 1 Tom Glavine 1996-02 7 2 Brad Radke 1996-01 6 T3 Kevin Brown 1996-00 5 T3 Mike Hampton 1997-01 5 T3 Randy Johnson 1998-02 5 T6 Scott Erickson 1996-99 4 T6 Greg Maddux 1998-01 4 T6 Rick Helling 1998-01 4 Radke, Brown, Hampton, Erickson............ yeah, there's a trend there. How many would have put Glavine on top, ahead of Unit and Schilling, and others? __________________ Steve, Forum Administrator "They come and they go, Hobbs. They come and they go." That's why there's NetShrine.com

11-03-2002, 09:04 AM	#5
pwdennis NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Winter Springs, FL Posts: 2,503	Interesting thread - I'm not sure what it proves though. The all-time list of seasons facing over 900 batters largely tracks the all-time IP leaders 001 Cy Young 19 002 Walter Johnson 18 T03 Phil Niekro 17 T03 Warren Spahn 17 T03 Don Sutton 17 006 Steve Carlton 16 T07 Tom Seaver 15 T07 Bert Blyleven 15 T07 Grover C Alexander 15 T07 Gaylord Perry 15 T11 Early Wynn 14 T11 Christy Mathewson 14 T11 Eddie Plank 14 T11 Red Ruffing 14 T15 Pud Galvin 13 T15 Kid Nichols 13 T15 Bobo Newsom 13 T15 Robin Roberts 13 T19 Earl Whitehill 12 T19 Lefty Grove 12 T19 Paul Derringer 12 T19 Jim Kaat 12 T19 Claude Osteen 12 T19 Hooks Dauss 12 T19 Jim Bunning 12 T19 Nolan Ryan 12 T19 Don Drysdale 12 T19 Burleigh Grimes 12 T19 Ferguson Jenkins 12 T19 Bob Gibson 12 __________________ "I would submit that if the world survives for a million years, perhaps its finest hour may be that in the last half of the 20th century, when the power to blow up the world rested in the hands of a few men in two very unsophisticated and suspicious countries, we didn't do it, and one American, Richard Nixon, moved the cold war away from permanent confrontation toward victory. How could any wrong that he did compare with that?" - John Sears

11-03-2002, 10:40 AM	#8
nyy26wc NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: NJ Posts: 14,584	This could be a chicken or egg situation. A pitcher who proves that he can pitch a lot year after year will continue to face a lot of batters per season until he's through. It could be problematic to easily separate out pitchers who stopped facing a lot of batters because they were through being productive and pitchers who stopped being productive because they faced a lot of batters. Also, in the Maddux case, I don't think the 1994 season being seliged could have saved his career. He's able to keep his BFP lower by being so far above the league in allowing baserunners. The fewer runners you allow, the fewer batters you have to face. __________________ Lee Creator, Complete Baseball Encyclopedia. It's powerful, yet extremely easy to use. Features extensive sorting and stat display options. The CBE has many features that are not available in online and printed sources. Has 2006 stats and daily update service for 2007.

11-04-2002, 12:39 PM	#11
KCBOOMER NetShrine All-Century Team Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Home of the T-Bones Posts: 11,116	The insistence on five consecutive years makes this a little harder. A number of things could cause a pitcher not to be able to face as many men as in years past. The strike of 1994 really comes to mind Don Sutton, Steve Carlton, Phil Niekro, Gaylord Perry, Tom Seaver, Warren Spahn, Don Drysdale, and Fergie Jenkins and had streaks of 8 season or more of 1000 BF's. I think this "1000 BF's" being important is moot. Guys just won't face that many batters anymore with the 5 day rotations and rampant use of relievers. __________________ KCBOOMER *Buck O'Neil: The Monarch of Baseball*

11-03-2002, 12:19 AM	#4
tortured angel Guest Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: middle east Posts: 573	To face that many batters you have to give up some baserunners.

11-04-2002, 02:16 PM	#13
VNV Nation Membership Suspended 11/19/02 Join Date: May 2002 Location: VNV Nation Posts: 2,952	all pitchers tend to break down pitchers who can pitch to 1,000 batters or 250 innings or 200 innings or 800 batters have already proven to be more durable than the thousands of other pitchers who break down before they can reach those marks. i'm not really sure how you could use this data in any meaningful way. e.g. looking at the list of guys with consecutive seasons of 900+ batters faced, you'll see most of these guys were extremely durable and had hugicle careers. one might infer from this that the key to staying healthy and having a long career is to make sure you face 900 batters.

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