Andruw and Vic
 

I'm sure I'll get ridiculed off the board for this....


...but watching the Vic Wertz/Mays clip a few times (they just showed it on the WS Telecast), it really seems like Andruw would have made that catch.

I mean, I think most agree 'Druw is one of the best fielding CFs of all time, especially with respect to range, but still -- that's always thought of as the catch of catches.

Discuss.

I've seen Mays say several times that was not his best catch (most recently in today's paper). That's the one everyone remembers because it was in the World Series. My father used to be a fixture at the Polo Grounds before the Giants moved. He felt that the catch in question was a routine play for Mays. You also have to remember that the Polo Grounds had a huge center field, and Mays would play that shallow. Just on that fact he beats Jones.

Re: Andruw and Vic
 

I'm not going to ridicule you because, as great as the catch was, and it was certainly great, I think I've seen a handful that are better.

In some respects, Mays had it easier, because he didn't have to worry about running into a wall. Now, covering the amount of ground is the incredible thing, to be sure, but based on pure speed, there were probably a few better ones.

I saw Lenny Dykstra make a great catch in '92 I think, and Andy Van Slyke made on around that time. Eric Davis stole three homers in 1987 alone, I believe. Devon White made great catches all the time, and there's the Jim Edmonds catch.

I would rank several of these as more difficult/dangerous although maybe not more amazing/important.

Re: Re: Andruw and Vic
 

that edmonds catch was truly unbelievable - but to tie it into my discussion here, i don't think andruw (or mays) would have made edmonds' catch -- because they probably wouldn't have needed to dive straight back to catch it.

i'm not knocking the mays catch -- it was undoubtedly great -- but I wonder if Andruw could also have made the catch with ease.

Andruw may or may not be the equal (or better) of mays at tracking 'em down in the field, but they're probably close enough that if Mays didn't put the Vic Wertz catch in the top few of his career, then maybe Andruw would have had it too.

i don't know how you could make the Edmonds catch without diving straight back for it.

1. get a better jump than the bad one edmonds got
2. be faster than edmonds
3. catch it over the shoulder

Re: Andruw and Vic
 

Nah. You're more likely to get tossed for starting threads on topics where we already have threads (like how to pitch Bonds) and starting threads in the wrong forum............dude, "Mays Catch" - it's Baseball History not PAS&S.

Re: Re: Andruw and Vic
 

at least take comfort in the fact that i started to post it in history, but changed my mind (Assuming the discussion would move toward andruw as opposed to the catch).

i don't think you could do that

The Mays catch is magnified for being in the series. Andruw or Edmonds have not made that kind of play in the World Series. While I think either of them probably could have gotten to that ball, its still one of the best ever just due to when it occured.

The Devon White catch was in the World Series and probably tougher and more important but no one really talks about it.

The remarkable thing about the Mays catch in the 1954 World Series was not the catch - it was the amazing off-balance throw that Mays made to finish off the play. Truly unbelievable

There have been any number of astonishing catches by center fielders. To say which is the best is just opinion of those we have seen. We have no basis of judging those we haven't seen.

tommie agee's...
 

...first catch in game 3 of the 69 series was as important. I agree that the truly astonishing part of the catch was the 180 and THROW afterwards. Arnold Hano wrote a BOOK centered around this catch called, if I remeber A DAY IN THE BLEACHERS. That ball was 460+ feet from Home plate....that is a long long way to run.As great as Andruw is, I dont think so...we'll never know

I once tried and the thread died:

http://www.netshrine.com/vbulletin2/...=&threadid=246 :(

Tougher
 

...then running back over 100 feet ,looking over your shoulder and catching the ball?{not counting what he did afterwards?} Um, i don't think so

Good job there, Max. The thing that really would have made it memorable is that it SHOULD have been a triple play -- the ump admitted he blew the call, was probably too stunned that it happened.

Re: Tougher
 

Well, as I said...I don't know that just running straight back is harder than running straight back while having to deal with a wall.

as for what White did...he threw the ball back and doubled off a runner, and frankly should have tripled off another runner, turning a bases-loaded triple into a double play (should have been a triple play).

The series was tied at the time and the Jays won 3-2. The series went six games and that was clearly the turning point. The Giants swept the Indians.

Re: Re: Tougher
 

Thanks, I do remember the play{I believe it was Deon sanders who should have been called out for the triple play}, and i'm even more certain that it was an easier catch than Mays"

"The Catch"??
 

While the catch that Mays made on Vic Wertz was amazing I think it may be over-romanticized because it was Mays. I would be willing to bet that not only did Mays make catches that were as good or better but so have many CFs. The timing of the catch and the icon that is Willie Mays are the factors that make that particular catch so memorable. The Devon White catch is an outstanding example of a catch at least on par with the Mays catch. The reason that catch does not hold the same place in history is because it was made by Devon White and not one of the all time great players (660 HR). We see it all the time on a smaller scale with the gold glove voting. Another great example is how Greg Nettles is not remembered as well as Brooks Robinson for having a dominant defensive World Series defensively. Maybe this is because Brooks was a better (not by as much as most people think) player. Another theory is that the role of a dominant defensive performance by a 3B in a World Series was already filled by Robinson and thus Nettles was not needed. I think that may also be the case with Mays and White or whomever. The place in baseball history for the greatest catch by a center fielder is occupied by Willie Mays and it will take something really unbelievable to replace that. It is entrenched deeply in the collective baseball memory.

Now would A. Jones have made the play? That is really impossible to say with any amount of certainty. I will tread dangerous ground and say that I think Jones covers more ground than Mays did; but I am not sure he would have made the play. While Willie was no Kenny Lofton or Grif Jr. (I’ll take centerfielders that play really deep to make themselves look like they have range for $500 please) he did not play as shallow as Jones. I have never seen a CF play as shallow on as consistently as Jones does. He may have played deeper in the Polo Ground but the aggressive shallow play of Jones may have prohibited him from making that particular catch.

Lastly I think people tend to over-romanticize events from their youth. We are more impressionable when we are younger and tend to remember thing as more spectacular than we would have believed them to be as we grow older and more jaded. I think this contributes to many of the over-rated aspects of baseball from the 50's and the 60's.

Re: tommie agee's...
 

This comes from an admitted lifelong Willie 24 admirer, but the key to the Wertz catch was that it was around 460 feet away and Willie was not standing out there 440 feet. He had a long run to go, he made an amazing throw afterwards, and it was in the World Series and had an impact on the Giants winning the World Series.

As for the Edmonds catch, no one dives straight back on a drive to center because its too risky and because almost everyone can cover everything before the warning track. This is just rumor but I heard that one of the knocks on Edmonds is that he has a habit of making the routine look spectacular.

Re: Re: tommie agee's...
 

Absolutely true. He is a better than average CF but not as good as the highlight reel may suggest he is.

Re: Re: Andruw and Vic
 

That has been my feelings for years, a great catch but not the most difficult because of all that room. Mays had no fear of running into a wall or a fence, 483 feet to the barrier in dead center. He made a long run, either he catches the ball or he does not, he had all the room in the world. Before anyone goes for my jugular, let me say it was still a great catch, but I have seen Mays make far more difficult catches. It was the World Series, 8th inning tie score, two men on base and that helped make it memorable.
Earlier in the game Vic Wertz tripled off the right field wall and now hits a ball around 460 feet for an out.
No justice, Wertz hits a ball 460 feet for an out in game one. In game two, Giant Dusty Rhodes hits a ball almost 200 feet shorter to right and gets a home run.