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-   -   Sweet Lou Piniella For Cooperstown? (http://www.netshrine.com/vbulletin2/showthread.php?t=6884)

Max Power 10-15-2002 08:28 PM

Sweet Lou Piniella For Cooperstown?
 
He has a career record of 1,319-1,135.

He had wire-to-wire champs, the 1990 Reds.

He's had four 1st place teams and four 2nd place teams. He's had four 3rd place teams. In total, he's been win-place-or-show 12 times in 15 full seasons.

He had a team that won 116 games in a season.

Only four times in 15 full years has his team not had a winning record.

He's won 90+ seven times - - missing an 8th by 1 win.

If he retired today, should he be enshired in Cooperstown as a MGR?

pwdennis 10-15-2002 08:48 PM

As a player, Lou clearly was not Cooperstown material , although he was a good hitter. As a manager he's not there yet, but he could get there.

moose 10-15-2002 09:12 PM

Re: Sweet Lou Piniella For Cooperstown?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Max Power
He has a career record of 1,319-1,135.

He had wire-to-wire champs, the 1990 Reds.

He's had four 1st place teams and four 2nd place teams. He's had four 3rd place teams. In total, he's been win-place-or-show 12 times in 15 full seasons.

He had a team that won 116 games in a season.

Only four times in 15 full years has his team not had a winning record.

He's won 90+ seven times - - missing an 8th by 1 win.

If he retired today, should he be enshired in Cooperstown as a MGR?


dont forget the MLB records in bases thrown and bases thrown above average (both career and season records)

JamesI 10-15-2002 09:16 PM

He's close I think. If he can take over the Mets and guide them to some good years then retire on a high note, sure.

JamesI 10-15-2002 09:18 PM

Re: Re: Sweet Lou Piniella For Cooperstown?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by moose
dont forget the MLB records in bases thrown and bases thrown above average (both career and season records)


:D :D

LeGrandOrange 10-15-2002 09:35 PM

I hadn't thought about Sweet Lou being a Cooperstown manager, but you make valid points...

If he leads a third team to the playoffs...then I think his case is more serious. Might also help to have 1,500 wins or so.

sweaver 10-15-2002 10:29 PM

Thumbs up here. He's had consistent success.

SmedIndy 10-15-2002 10:43 PM

I can't say yes yet. He needs to bag a couple more WS titles.

Max Power 10-15-2002 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SmedIndy
I can't say yes yet. He needs to bag a couple more WS titles.


He's already won as many as Earl Weaver, Tony LaRussa, and Leo Durocher, and Bobby Cox each have won.

SmedIndy 10-15-2002 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Max Power
He's already won as many as Earl Weaver, Tony LaRussa, and Leo Durocher, and Bobby Cox each have won.


I can't put him in the Weaver class. Leo was a product of his own hype, and the fact he managed in the NY area for many years he was written about quite a bit. Charlie Grimm was a pretty good manager, too. Won four league titles with the Cubs. But he's not a HOF manager.

I really don't know what the HOF is going to do with managers with the new VC, but aside from a few I don't think many managers qualify in my eyes.

For now, Lou would have a corner booth in the coffee shop of the Hall of the Pretty Good, chatting with Dale Murphy and Dave Parker over coffee and a bacon/cheese omelet.

VNV Nation 10-16-2002 12:06 AM

Piniella is interesting in that he's been to the postseason with three distinctly different teams -- big bullpen Reds, humongous power Mariners, then the bingle-you-to-death Mariners.

My problem with Lou is that he had the nucleus to a potential powerhouse team in Seattle -- hard to find a team in history with five guys better than Randy Johnson, Ken Griffey, A-Rod, Edgar, Buhner, not to mention some other good players like Fassero and Moyer -- and he hardly did anything with it.

JamesI 10-16-2002 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Max Power
He's already won as many as Earl Weaver, Tony LaRussa, and Leo Durocher, and Bobby Cox each have won.


I don't think Pinella is in the same class as these others (other than LaRussa) Let me see Pinella raise a bad team to contention, or take a mediocre team to the series.

Ytown Tribe fan 10-16-2002 07:26 AM

Bobby Cox, Tony LaRussa, Joe Torre, Billy Martin first, then Lou, IMO.

Jim Rice 10-16-2002 08:47 AM

I agree with those who have listed the LaRussa-Torre-Cox group as being more qualified contemporaries of Piniella's. On top of that, there are at least a half dozen retired guys whose cases are as strong (or stronger) than Lou's and still aren't in the Hall. What about Whitey Herzog? If you think Whitey belongs in the Hall, then so does Lou, otherwise he doesn't. A similar case can be made for Davey Johnson. Same for Billy Martin, as others have already said. What about Danny Murtaugh? Or Dick Williams? Heck, given the conditions he managed under, Tom Kelly has just as good a case as Lou right now.

I'm not saying Lou doesn't belong, but he would be in a long line. Personally, assuming all the active guys retired today, I'd rank them as follows:

LaRussa (did it in three cities)
Williams (Pennants in three cities; winning records in four)
Torre (Would be higher if his greatest success wasn't tied so closely to Steinbrenner's wallet)
Martin (post-season in four cities - loses ground because of his instability)
Cox (Really needs another WS title to move up)
Kelly (Two WS titles despite zero ownership support)
Herzog and Piniella (Too close to call)
Johnson
Murtaugh
Gene Mauch (Last because luck is an important thing for a manager to have and he had none.)

BigKlu 10-16-2002 12:05 PM

To answer the question, if Pinella retired today, then no, he wouldn't get my vote.

Again, LaRussa, Cox and Torre are far ahead of him as active managers.

Davey Johnson accomplished more than Pinella did.

Whitey Herzog, Billy Martin and Dick Williams are better HoF candidates.

I'm inclined to wonder if Billy Southworth, Tom Kelly and Jim Leyland wouldn't be better candidates as well?


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