Top 30 HR List Coming Into 2003

[Wolf Hopper]

Take a look at this chart:


CAREER
HR% vs. the league average displayed only--not a sorting criteria
HR/100 OUTS vs. the league average displayed only--not a sorting criteria
HR/100 PA vs. the league average displayed only--not a sorting criteria
ISOLATED POWER vs. the league average displayed only--not a sorting criteria
SLG vs. the league average displayed only--not a sorting criteria

HOMERUNS HR HR% HR/100 PA HR/100 PA ISO SLG
1 Hank Aaron 755 3.55 5.00 3.13 .115 .157
2 Babe Ruth 714 7.30 10.80 5.67 .231 .285
3 Willie Mays 660 3.44 4.84 2.93 .119 .156
4 Barry Bonds 613 4.59 6.30 3.42 .154 .184
5 Frank Robinson 586 3.25 4.48 2.66 .109 .144
6 Mark McGwire 583 6.52 8.45 5.04 .177 .174
7 Harmon Killebrew 573 4.42 5.66 3.51 .121 .122
8 Reggie Jackson 563 3.27 4.27 2.76 .100 .103
9 Mike Schmidt 548 4.37 5.65 3.49 .135 .138
10 Mickey Mantle 536 4.08 5.87 3.16 .126 .165
11 Jimmie Foxx 534 4.85 7.07 4.00 .153 .192
T12 Willie McCovey 521 4.00 5.33 3.28 .117 .125
T12 Ted Williams 521 4.63 7.11 3.45 .161 .236
T14 Eddie Mathews 512 3.27 4.41 2.63 .097 .103
T14 Ernie Banks 512 2.79 3.67 2.56 .088 .097
16 Mel Ott 511 3.87 5.51 3.13 .112 .135
17 Eddie Murray 504 1.81 2.53 1.58 .050 .073
18 Sammy Sosa 499 4.15 5.43 3.70 .116 .125
19 Lou Gehrig 493 4.60 6.87 3.72 .163 .213
20 Rafael Palmeiro 490 2.56 3.60 2.18 .081 .107
21 Fred McGriff 478 2.86 3.93 2.37 .080 .099
T22 Stan Musial 475 1.91 3.04 1.58 .094 .157
T22 Willie Stargell 475 3.74 5.14 3.25 .123 .143
24 Ken Griffey Jr. 468 3.80 5.29 3.24 .116 .143
25 Dave Winfield 465 1.76 2.38 1.56 .059 .078
26 Jose Canseco 462 3.60 4.60 3.07 .099 .099
27 Carl Yastrzemski 452 1.28 1.81 1.01 .048 .076
28 Dave Kingman 442 4.32 5.29 3.90 .114 .087
29 Andre Dawson 438 2.10 2.81 2.01 .073 .089
30 Cal Ripken 431 0.89 1.23 0.82 .026 .036

Look at Rafael Palmeiro's line v. Ernie Banks' line.
Look at Ken Griffey Jr.'s line v. Mel Ott's line.
Look at Sammy Sosa's line v. Dave Kingman's line.
Look at Reggie Jackson's line v. Eddie Mathews' line.

Now quickly look at the tip of both your feet, at the same time.
Then look to your left and count to ten.
Then look back at the chart.

Do you see the orange rabbit holding the purple umbrella?

OK, kidding aside, does this chart change the way you view any of the TOP 30 HR guys?

No? Why?
If yes? How?

[JamesI]

nope. These are not meaningful comparisons to me your making Steve.

Anyone on this this has to be in the top 300 or so all time players.

[Skip]

All I see is Babe standing head, shoulders, and beerbelly over everyone else - again.

[JamesI]

actually, I found something. This list shows Barry Bonds has not yet caught Ted Williams as all time best left fielder.

[rcartman28]

I agree with Skip--Ruth is well above anyone else on the list. I also notice that Ripken's numbers look pretty skimpy compared to everyone else on the list....

[LeGrandOrange]

I just see a lot of numbers that don't even reveal a quarter of the whole story.

[Ytown Tribe fan]

Originally posted by LeGrandOrange
I just see a lot of numbers that don't even reveal a quarter of the whole story.

You mean McGwire wasn't a greater player than Gehrig?!:rolleyes:

[LeGrandOrange]

Of course not, don't be ridicilous (sic). :)

[KCBOOMER]

I guess it means that a lot of guys hit a lot of home runs, but there is only one BABE which we already knew.

[sweaver]

Originally posted by JamesI
actually, I found something. This list shows Barry Bonds has not yet caught Ted Williams as all time best left fielder. That's your opinion. ;)

I like the comparison of Griffey and Ott. Hey, Junior is still #24 all-time in homers, and even a run of injuries can't take that away.

The worst player on that list is Kingman, who is probably somewhere around #300 ( I haven't gotten that far yet.) The next worst is Canseco, at #175. So yeah, I'd say they are all in the top 300, and with one exception all in the top 200.

[Wolf Hopper]

Interesting feedback - thanks.
'Tho, I must say, using this list to determine who's better than who as a player, at a postion, etc., is not the right thing to do - - - this chart/list really only tells us about power - - specfically, HR power. There's much more to a player than HRs.

[satchel]

Of course there's more to a player than homers, but the home run percentage and homer per plate appearance numbers do say a lot about what kind of fear the player must have struck into the hearts of opposing pitchers.

Those numbers, I think, are responsible for the general comments of "wow, Babe Ruth is still way better than everyone else." Those numbers also highlight how much of Cal Ripken's impressive career totals were due to his amazing longevity and durability.

You can't pick the best player ever based on homer stats, but I don't really think there's much sense in ranking players at all (sorry, sweaver). Still, you posted the list Wolf - what were your thoughts about it?

[sweaver]

Originally posted by satchel
, but I don't really think there's much sense in ranking players at all (sorry, sweaver Oh, sure, take away my fun. ;)

How about a comparison of Mac to the Babe? Only Ruth hit them with more frequency than McGwire.

[Wolf Hopper]

Originally posted by satchel
Still, you posted the list Wolf - what were your thoughts about it?

A a high level, that the "500 HR Club" crown which used to mean you were a "supreme HR being" is now not enough to be considered that.

I would say that you would need 500 HRs and a HR% at least 3 above league average and/or a SLG% at least 100 points above average to be considered a "supreme HR being."

Further, I would not "blame" the McGriffs and Palmeiros of the world for bringing down the "500 HR Club" crown - - - - Ernie Banks and Eddie Muray diluted the club first, IMHO.

[JamesI]

Originally posted by Wolf Hopper
Further, I would not "blame" the McGriffs and Palmeiros of the world for bringing down the "500 HR Club" crown - - - - Ernie Banks and Eddie Muray diluted the club first, IMHO.

since according to you (and many others) 500 homers is not a sign of supreme power, how could someone dilute the club by hitting 500 homers? all 500 homers means is a mix of power (not supreme power always) and longevity. Murray and Banks may not have been among the top 10-20 power hitters in terms of homers versus average, but they earned their 500 homers.

[Wolf Hopper]

Originally posted by JamesI
since according to you (and many others) 500 homers is not a sign of supreme power, how could someone dilute the club by hitting 500 homers? all 500 homers means is a mix of power (not supreme power always) and longevity. Murray and Banks may not have been among the top 10-20 power hitters in terms of homers versus average, but they earned their 500 homers.

For me, it's the difference between being able to make $6,000 over 5 years or $6,000 over 16 years.

Yes, agreed, six grand is six grand, but, they guy who can make it in 5 years is way ahead of the guy who needs 16 years to do it. It's just more impressive, that's all - IMHO. Not the rule, just my opinion.

[JamesI]

Originally posted by Wolf Hopper
For me, it's the difference between being able to make $6,000 over 5 years or $6,000 over 16 years.

Yes, agreed, six grand is six grand, but, they guy who can make it in 5 years is way ahead of the guy who needs 16 years to do it. It's just more impressive, that's all - IMHO. Not the rule, just my opinion.

ok, I agree McGwire (as example) is a more impressive home run hitter than Murray. But there is something to consistancy as well...

[LeGrandOrange]

Wolf...I hardly consider Banks and Murray dilution. You might consider it such, but you'll just have to live with the fact they did more than homer. :)

[pwdennis]

It does point out the nature of the home run explosion - when I started following baseball in 1960 these were the all-time leaders by season's end

Ruth 714
Foxx 535
Williams 521
Ott 511
Gehrig 493
Musial 429

Ralph Kiner's 369 was well within the top 20 as was Chuck Klein's 300 . I think that calculating Kiner's ratios would reveal him to have been a greatly feared hitter

[Fuzzy Bear]

I hardly believe that Banks and Murray "diluted" the club.

Banks was a shortstop for the productive half of his career. Murray is the only player, other than Mays and Aaron to have 3,000 hits with his 500 HRs.

Banks and Murray also played in eras less conducive to hitting than, say, the 1920s and '30s.