You're the manager - when is enough enough?

[gyb13]

Today's Reds-Cubs game...pitchers' duel through the first three innings....then the Cubs bust out against Danny Graves.

Cubs 4th: HR, 1B, BB, 1B, 2 RBI 1B, RBI 1B, bunt popout, RBI 2B, lineout, IBB, groundout (5 runs, 6 hits) 19 balls, 12 strikes (68 pitches through 4)

Cubs 5th: 1B, RBI 2B, groundout, BB, fielder's choice, RBI 1B, error, 2 RBI 2B, groundout (4 runs, 4 hits, 1 error) 12 balls, 19 strikes (99 pitches through 5)

Meanwhile, Shawn Estes had thrown 5 no-hit innings.

Assuming that you had someone ready in the pen, when would you have brought the reliever in, if at all, and why?

(Josias Manzanillo relieved Graves to start the 6th)

[KCBOOMER]

Obviously, the smart thing have been to take him out after three but that would take a level of prescience that I do not have. I think after the rbi double in the fourth would have been about right.

[Skip]

After the 6th of 6 batters reached base, 4 scoring, I'd have had enough. Of course I live in the 1970s.

[poorme]

Originally posted by KCBOOMER
Obviously, the smart thing have been to take him out after three but that would take a level of prescience that I do not have. I think after the rbi double in the fourth would have been about right.

yeah. i'd have had the pen warming in earnest after the third single in the fourth.

[SmedIndy]

In the fourth, it would have depended on when Graves was due up. If he was up in the fourth, I'd have yanked him after the double.

If he was due up early in the top of the fifth, I'd have tried to have him ride it out, pinch hit and double switch.

[JamesI]

in the 4th, after giving up 6 straight hits.

[Skip]

You da man JamesI, except not all 6 were hits. ;)

[gyb13]

Originally posted by SmedIndy
In the fourth, it would have depended on when Graves was due up. If he was up in the fourth, I'd have yanked him after the double.

If he was due up early in the top of the fifth, I'd have tried to have him ride it out, pinch hit and double switch. he was pitching in the bottom of the inning, so his position in the lineup in the top of the 4th doesn't matter....in the top of the 5th, he was due up 5th....in the top of the 6th, he was due up 2nd

[sweaver]

Reliever warming up after the two-run single in the 4th (5th hitter). If he was warm, I would've run the reliever in after the RBI double. Otherwise, he probably would've finished the inning for me. Who was the IBB to?

[gyb13]

make me do all the work, why dontcha...

4th 5th
Patterson 2B, RBI 1B, RBI
Gonzalez lineout E-5
Sosa HR IBB 2B, 2 RBI
O'leary 1B, SB groundout groundout
Choi BB 1B
Martinez 1B 2B, RBI
Bellhorn 1B, 2 RBI groundout
Bako 1B, RBI BB
Estes bunt popout fc

[JamesI]

Originally posted by Skip
You da man JamesI, except not all 6 were hits. ;)

oops, sorry. But you know what I meant.

[gyb13]

ok, 6 men have reached base, but the pitcher is at bat.... do you still pull Graves?

[JamesI]

Originally posted by gyb13
ok, 6 men have reached base, but the pitcher is at bat.... do you still pull Graves?

probably

[SmedIndy]

Originally posted by gyb13
he was pitching in the bottom of the inning, so his position in the lineup in the top of the 4th doesn't matter....in the top of the 5th, he was due up 5th....in the top of the 6th, he was due up 2nd

Yes it does, GYB. I want to know when he's up in the TOP of the inning, the next bats. I'd make a decision then.

Up 5th in the next inning, I'd have yanked him in the 4th.

[LisaG]

DEFINITELY after martinez' rbi double. i didn't watch the game, so i don't know what the pitches were that were thrown after sosa hit the HR, but even if the hitters hit on good pitches, i still would have pulled him. maybe he could have been tipping his pitches, but who knows.

[sweaver]

Originally posted by gyb13
make me do all the work, why dontcha...
The curse of being good at something....

If Sullivan (or whomever) had been warm, I would have brought him in to face A-Gonz in the 4th. If he wasn't ready, I probably would have left Graves in after the out. And I probably would've walked Sosa to pitch to O'Leary also. Then I would've yanked him (double switch) after the 4th was over.

[gyb13]

Originally posted by SmedIndy
Yes it does, GYB. I want to know when he's up in the TOP of the inning, the next bats. I'd make a decision then. smed, you didn't understand....i said his position in the top of the FOURTH doesn't matter....because, at the point of the game in question, the top of the 4th has already occurred... Graves' implosion began on the BOTTOM of the 4th. thus, what matters (like i said before) is when he's due up in the top of the 5th.

[pathogan]

...character building...or some such thing

[SmedIndy]

GYB - I forgot which team was at home. The point is the same - I'd pull him depending on when he was up in the next inning. That's the essence.

[gyb13]

yes, we agree to agree