SABR Membership - Worth it? [merged threads]

[ChrisCary]

Someone please explain.

[NetShrine]

Oh, don't get me started!

http://www.sabr.org

is a good place to start. I just joined this year - - after years of debating it. Still not sure if it was the right thing for me?

Lee - you out there? I know you can talk about the merits/faults of SABR better than I can.

[ChrisCary]

They don't tell you much about it.

[NetShrine]

I'm still going to defer to Lee - and hope he chimes in. But, I will say this (as a comment, not to bait) - there does seem to be a bit (or tad, if you prefer) of an "Ivory Tower" attitude amongst some of the members - - shoot, they're going through elections now - and one of the candidates even mentions this!

[Jen]

Originally posted by NetShrine
I'm still going to defer to Lee - and hope he chimes in. But, I will say this (as a comment, not to bait) - there does seem to be a bit (or tad, if you prefer) of an "Ivory Tower" attitude amongst some of the members - - shoot, they're going through elections now - and one of the candidates even mentions this!

Do you get to wear a fez?


(God, I wish I was :beer: right now!!! Today is just one of those days.)

Sorry to intrude on your post, CC. :)

[NetShrine]

Funny Jen - - sidebar: Once, our friend, Jim F. (and, why isn't Jim registered yet!) mentioned that SABR may be meeting at the Berra Museum in NJ. As we're both close to it, he wanted to know if I was interested in checking it out.

I was - but, I caveated it with sharing my fear that it may turn out just like that day in HS when I decided "Hey, let me check out the Star Trek Club meeting today" - - for the record, it was the 1st and only time that went.

Ever see a Klingon Fez? :eek2:

[nyy26wc]

There is definitely an ivory tower attitude in SABR, at least some members.

It is also clear that SABR has a lot of internal problems, most self inflicted by their board. Basically, the SABR board is vindictive against their opponents within the organization.

But, if you put that aside, SABR is a great organization. I've been a member since 1997 and no plans of giving it up. The vast majority of the organization's membership doesn't even know about the events I am referring to. These events are well chronicled on an internal SABR mailing list, but only a little more than 2% of the members is on that list. These are interesting events to follow, as far as that perverse enjoyment we get watching adults act like children, but it's also very easy to just turn your back to it and focus only the baseball side of the organization.

Receiving SABR-L, which is their listserv, is worth the cost of membership, by itself. You also receive a monthly bulletin and a few books per year.

I have also found SABR members to be excellent at responding to questions through email and have many of them on my daily newsletter list.

[NetShrine]

Originally posted by nyy26wc
Receiving SABR-L, which is their listserv, is worth the cost of membership, by itself. You also receive a monthly bulletin and a few books per year.

I have also found SABR members to be excellent at responding to questions through email

On this, I concur. It has my official ditto. Thanks Lee -
and, Happy Birthday!

[mainsr]

I was a SABR member from 1981 until about 1985 or 1986. Good stuff, but is it better than what gets posted on all the various websites?

[NetShrine]

Originally posted by mainsr
I was a SABR member from 1981 until about 1985 or 1986. Good stuff, but is it better than what gets posted on all the various websites?

Good thought - probably not. Though, one of SABR's missions is to make their website "the baseball place on the web." As it is, it has a way to go.

[nyy26wc]

Most of the infighting in SABR really doesn't have much impact beyond the feelings of the participants. But, I can see disputes between members hurting those efforts.

But, there are also some great sounding databases that people are working on that they plan on eventually making available online. The people involved there don't seem to be involved in the controversies, at least not the public ones.

[Throwback]

I just ordered a membership a couple weeks ago. How long does it take them to mail the bill? I am anxious to start getting all the benefits.

[NetShrine]

T-back, welcome to the forum!
I had signed on on-line, and they were pretty quick - - hang in there, it's probably coming.

Signing up is strange. (Lee, help me on this, if I'm wrong.) You sign up thru Y/E, regardless of when you join. For example, sign up in Jan., and it's $50 for the next 12 months. Sign up in June, and it's $50 for the next six months. Doesn't make any sense to join from October to December.

[nyy26wc]

I don't know how long it takes, but I'm going to send you a private message with the head of the membership department's email address. Then, you can contact him.

[NCFella19]

I searched threads using "SABR" as a keyword, but didn't find what I was looking for.

Anyone have their own view as far as SABR goes? It seems to me like a worthwhile organization with valiant purposes, but is there any advantage for "Joe Fan" to join?

Thanks for your input.

[soxfan121]

Being a member less than a year, I can say I enjoy the newsletter (especially the book notes) but overall I've been disappointed.

[Craig S.]

I've only been a member for a while, but so far I've seen little benefit from the group. It might be that I have to make an effort to be involved - I'm not really sure.

It would be nice to hear some of the other members who I guess have stronger feelings about the group.

[Max Power]

I was a member for something like three months - - then I "resigned" from my membership. Too many rules, too many with an ivory tower attitude, too (way too much) politics for me. I was really turned off.

But, this was just me. I may be wrong on all of it.

[ChrisCary]

But what is it?

[Max Power]

Originally posted by ChrisCary
But what is it?

What is what? SABR?
see the link
www.sabr.org

[pwdennis]

I keep thinking about joining, but there reaches a point where I lose interest in too much "statisticulation".

I tend to be more intuitive than analytical in terms of my understanding of baseball stats. Some of the data developed and extracted seems to me to fall into the category of understanding more and more about less and less.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

SABR has it's merits, at times it's a usefull tool. One problem is, some of it's members get too hung up on the numbers game and don't care to hear anything that does not go along with thier numbers game. I had a debate with one of it's members on another board dealing with the strike zone and the rise in strike outs. He would not give an inch. He disputed my thinking on the smaller (verticle) strike zone. The only thing he knew was, if the strike zone was shaved off the top in the last ten seasons why are hitters putting up all these strike outs. I don't know how long he has watched this game but the strike zone is lower than ever. I would think even a casual fan would conclude hitters are swinging from the heels more than ever. We all know what happens when a hitter or hitters go for the long ball, strike outs will increase, even with todays smaller strike zone. Again SABR has it's points but sometimes they try to arrive at conclusions using numbers alone, and not considering using observation and common sense.

[NCFella19]

Thanks for all the responses!

After much pondering and reflection, I think I will pass on the SABR membership for the time being until I pick more people's brains on the matter.

[Skip]

I did the same about a year ago, give or take. Seemed too political and too interested in only my money and in appearing superior at the time.

FWIW.

[CpUltravox]

I joined about halfway through the year, about 2-3 years ago, belonged for a half a year. The first e-mail I got was from a guy named Nic Antoine, who was campaigning for president or something. He seemed like a nice enough guy, but then I recieved 6 or 7 e-mails telling me why he should be president, why he shouldn't be president, why he was banned from participating in executive forums, what reasons ownership has to revoke someone's membership, why he shouldn't be allowed to send out the e-mail, the importance of not using SABR e-mail lists for political purposes... etc... I found these annoying, rather than fun. Needless to say, I was furious I spent money on it. I hope it's changed by now.

I got a nifty book on Lefty Grove though!

After the first year ended, and my membership expired, I started getting e-mails to attend Jack Graney Chapter Meetings and events. Had these e-mails arrived in the reverse order, I might still have been a member.

SABR sets up in the mezzanine of Jacobs Field, where my tickets are to peddle memberships. It's fun to shoot the breeze with those guys, but I don't know that I'll ever belong again

[Max Power]

So many people with the same experience, you would think that SABR would do something about it?

There's a lot of money there - - makes one wonder what it's doing?

[CpUltravox]

Frankly, Steve, you've grown something better here. We've got regional people, a pocket of Bostonites, a pocket of NYs, there's a growing pocket here in Cleveland, and the west coasters are exploding too.

We've got your historical committee chair in Smed, a sabermetrics chair in Lee, trivia buffs in Tre and Craig, and Will leading the charge for injury acknowledgement.

We've even got a professional proofreader, or at least an amateur proofreader who thinks he's a professional proofreader! ;)

All you ask for is decorum, pleasantries, and that we TRY to stay on topic as much as we can. People from all sorts of backgrounds are here, of varying ages from 18-75, and I think everyone feels welcome when they participate, so long as they're willing to think about baseball as opposed to just react.

SABR has some great resources if you're dong research into the game, but for the average intellectual fan - if what you enjoy is the interaction, the talking to people of various baseball interests and the discussion of baseball with people who think about it as opposed to react too emotionally about it - I think this is just about the best place you can be.

Just my :2cents:

[Max Power]

Wow CP! Thanks.
Should I close
this thread
now - > http://www.netshrine.com/vbulletin2/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2254 ;)

[sweaver]

Originally posted by CpUltravox
Frankly, Steve, you've grown something better here. - if what you enjoy is the interaction, the talking to people of various baseball interests and the discussion of baseball with people who think about it as opposed to react too emotionally about it - I think this is just about the best place you can be.


Second the motion....the other stuff too.

[SmedIndy]

Originally posted by CpUltravox
Frankly, Steve, you've grown something better here. We've got regional people, a pocket of Bostonites, a pocket of NYs, there's a growing pocket here in Cleveland, and the west coasters are exploding too.

We've got your historical committee chair in Smed, a sabermetrics chair in Lee, trivia buffs in Tre and Craig, and Will leading the charge for injury acknowledgement.

We've even got a professional proofreader, or at least an amateur proofreader who thinks he's a professional proofreader! ;)

All you ask for is decorum, pleasantries, and that we TRY to stay on topic as much as we can. People from all sorts of backgrounds are here, of varying ages from 18-75, and I think everyone feels welcome when they participate, so long as they're willing to think about baseball as opposed to just react.

SABR has some great resources if you're dong research into the game, but for the average intellectual fan - if what you enjoy is the interaction, the talking to people of various baseball interests and the discussion of baseball with people who think about it as opposed to react too emotionally about it - I think this is just about the best place you can be.

Just my :2cents:

I concur, although the Cleveland-ites, along with some reps from Indiana (more than you think), Minnesota, KC, Chi-town, KY, and WV can form the "middle America" chapter!

[CpUltravox]

I forgot Indy! geez!

There's more people in Indy than there are in Cleveland, certainly.

[WiredTiger]

Is anyone a member of SABR? I've often wondered about it but never knew anybody who had actually joined or contributed.

[Craig S.]

I'm a member, although my contributions have been nil. I think some of the publications I get are excellent, and I've made some contacts through the group. Not participating as a member is my own fault, really.

[nyy26wc]

Just a little warning for those on SABR-L or those who are considering joining--be careful about citing sources. If you do it, you run the risk of getting your post labeled a commercial ad and having it censored. Unless, of course, you're in the inner circle.

A couple of days ago, someone asked about whether Reggie Sanders playing a full year with 6 different teams in 6 years (assuming he spends the whole year with the Pirates) is unprecedented. I sent out a response, but made the mistake of mentioning "From the baseball-encyclopedia.com Player Comments Book that I just wrote--"

The post was censored.

There have been plenty of posts in the past few days on Win Shares. Who wants to offend James by censoring him. But, me. No problem.

No need to provide any more deterrants for me from posting to that list. I've got the message.

[Max Power]

I too, while a brief member of SABR, found the queue management of the SABR-L to be very subjective and temperamental.

[Craig S.]

Originally posted by nyy26wc
A couple of days ago, someone asked about whether Reggie Sanders playing a full year with 6 different teams in 6 years (assuming he spends the whole year with the Pirates) is unprecedented. I sent out a response, but made the mistake of mentioning "From the baseball-encyclopedia.com Player Comments Book that I just wrote--"

The post was censored.

There have been plenty of posts in the past few days on Win Shares. Who wants to offend James by censoring him. But, me. No problem.

No need to provide any more deterrants for me from posting to that list. I've got the message.

Stories like that make me wary of renewing my membership. Again, I'd like to see an alternative to SABR, but who has the time to organize an effort like that?

Lee, I've heard similar tales in the past. God forbid that you quote yourself as a source.

[Max Power]

Originally posted by Craig S.
Again, I'd like to see an alternative to SABR, but who has the time to organize an effort like that?

We don't? :D

[Skip]

Originally posted by Max Power
I too, while a brief member of SABR, found the queue management of the SABR-L to be very subjective and temperamental. Uhhh ... never mind. :D

[GGC]

I was a member in 2001 and recently joined up again. You get some good publications as a member, like Baseball Research Journal and The National Pastime.

I've been to a few regional chapter meetings. They usually have some speakers, some displays, and I've added a few things to my baseball library that way.

Recently, I joined SABR's Collegiate Committee. I helped doublecheck some info for the database of college/Major League players that they are working on. http://www.ncaa-baseball.com/sabr/

It seems like people get SABR mixed up with sabremetrics. From my limited exposure, it seems like most of the other members that I've met are more interested in the history of the game than statistical analysis. It also seems that the demographics at the meetings I've been to skew towards senior citizens with a few relative youngsters like me thrown in. Not as many members in their 40s and 50s seem to attend, but they are the largest group of members; albeit, that's the age when you most likely have the most responsibilities.

Is SABR for everybody. Probably not. But I am a frustrated author. I always wanted to write a book, but have had trouble coming up with good stories. However, there are plenty of good stories in baseball if you want to find them. That's my present goal.

GGC

[pathogan]

..in the late 80's or early 90's. My contibution was less than zero, the politics was ,well,odd,the Negro league publication was absolutely first rate,though...as i remember there was one, one MLB player in sabr at the time.I think{?} it was Terry Kennedy...At the risk of offending, is there ANYTHING there that im not going to find here? I miss will's column, so i would go to BP before sabr,anyway

[GGC]

As far as current events go, probably not. The one thing that I think that you could get at a SABR meeting that you can't here is live face-to-face interaction with other like-minded people. Of course, the regional meetings that I have attended are open to the general public.

GGC