Cooperstown and Bush/Indy Leagues

[Max Power]

There's been some chatter that Rickey Henderson may play for the St. Pauls Saints this year. That brought two questions to mind:

1. Has an obvious Cooperstown Hall of Fame player ever played in the Minors or Indies after his "big league" career?
2. To be eligible for Cooperstown, the rule reads: "A baseball player must have been active as a player in the Major Leagues at some time during a period beginning twenty (20) years before and ending five (5) years prior to election." Say someone plays a year in the minors or on a team like St. Paul, and then hangs them up - - - should the 5 year clock start then, or after his last game in the bigs?

[pwdennis]

Iron Man Joe McGinnity played for many years in the minors after his big league career was over.

While not a HOF member , George Brunet also played many post MLB minor league seasons

[TimmyB]

It would seem like the rule states the clock starts ticking once his "big league" career is over. Sure, there's a chance someone could take him back, and if that happens, I guess the clock would go back to zero.

As for Rickey... people can say lots of things about him, but the man just wants to play ball.

[KCBOOMER]

Though ineligible for the HoF Shoeless Joe Jackson played quite a while in independent leagues after his banishment.

[WiredTiger]

I would say that the clock would start from your last game in a big league uniform. If you come back to the Majors your clock starts again.

Although not a obvious HOF, Jack Morris signed with the Saints after he retired. I don't think it affected the year he was eligible for HOF consideration.

[rcartman28]

Originally posted by WiredTiger

Although not a obvious HOF, Jack Morris signed with the Saints after he retired. I don't think it affected the year he was eligible for HOF consideration.

I believe that Morris signed with the Saints with the idea of using his stint here in Saint Paul as a springboard back into the major leagues that season. He pitched well, but if I recall correctly, his deal with the Yankees fell thru because New York wanted him to go to AAA Columbus for a start or two first and Morris refused and then quit for good.

[rcartman28]

here's a link for some HOF pitchers who did stints in the minors after their major league careers were over....

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/minor-league/minor7.shtml

[nyy26wc]

Warren Spahn's eligibility was pushed back because of time spent in the minors after his major league career ended.

[Max Power]

Originally posted by nyy26wc
Warren Spahn's eligibility was pushed back because of time spent in the minors after his major league career ended.

I wonder if Independents would be viewed the same as the minors?

[SmedIndy]

I think they would now - before they were "outlaw" leagues and you probably would be on the ineligible list.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Originally posted by TimmyB
It would seem like the rule states the clock starts ticking once his "big league" career is over. Sure, there's a chance someone could take him back, and if that happens, I guess the clock would go back to zero.

I don't think this is the case with the minor leagues, including the Mexican League.

Warren Spahn went back to, I believe, the Mexican League, in an attempt to make a comeback to the point where he could get one last shot at Mathewson's NL record for wins, in 1967. This delayed his HOF induction. (Spahnnie's last ML season was in 1965).

I don't know how independent leagues would be applied, or going to Japan. (No HOFer, to my knowledge, ever played in Japan.)

[Bruce Markusen]

I'm going to take a look into this one tomorrow; it's a very good question. I should have a definitive answer from one of the vice presidents at the Hall of Fame.

[Max Power]

Originally posted by Bruce Markusen
I should have a definitive answer from one of the vice presidents at the Hall of Fame.

excellent!

[Bruce Markusen]

I'm sorry that I didn't get a chance to talk to the Hall of Fame brass about this today. I will give it a better attempt on Wednesday.

[Max Power]

No rush - this thread will always be here! ;)

[Bruce Markusen]

Here's the deal, according to the current Hall of Fame election rules. If Henderson, or any other player, played in the minor leagues (either independent or National Association) this season and was not listed on a MLB roster (either 25 or 40-man), he would be eligible in five years, which would make Henderson eligible in 2008.

Sorry it took so long for me to come up with an answer.

[TimmyB]

Originally posted by Bruce Markusen
Sorry it took so long for me to come up with an answer.

Apparently you don't understand how things work. You're supposed to drop everything and attend to our needs. :D

[Bruce Markusen]

Now I've got it!!!

[hmrsf]

Cool......now we have a Cooperstown connection!!


BTW, maybe you could help a friend of mine. He has these 8 gold gloves ..................and would look great on a plaque! You could even use this picture!
<-------------------:D

[Max Power]

Originally posted by Bruce Markusen
Here's the deal, according to the current Hall of Fame election rules. If Henderson, or any other player, played in the minor leagues (either independent or National Association) this season and was not listed on a MLB roster (either 25 or 40-man), he would be eligible in five years, which would make Henderson eligible in 2008.

Thanks Bruce!

I'm not sure of the rules - but, for some reason, because of his service, I would think that Henderson would have to be on a 40-man roster, if in the minors. Anyone know this to be true or false?

[nyy26wc]

Originally posted by Max Power
Thanks Bruce!

I'm not sure of the rules - but, for some reason, because of his service, I would think that Henderson would have to be on a 40-man roster, if in the minors. Anyone know this to be true or false?

In order for Henderson to be in the minors, off the 40 man roster, he'd have to be sent there "outright", which means he'd have to pass through waivers first.

[Max Power]

Thanks Lee!

[Digitalparks]

I do deal with minor league teams and minor league licensing and so forth so I can tell you this much

Minor League Baseball Properties... which is owned by Major League Baseball... detests... the Indy Leagues... of course they won't tell you this, but i can tell you, they do not like to deal with people who work with Indy Leagues. (I work with both so... I know about this)

They give no respect whatsoever to the Northern or Atlantic League and do not even recognize them as legitimate professional baseball.

Major League baseball will scout the Indy Leagues, and play nice when they need someone from there, but on a whole... I don't think they consider it "real" baseball.

The Hall of Fame has not as of yet, offered any type of relevance to Indy League ball, putting in the same category as "semi-pro" ball... amateur ball... but they Do get paid. As such... I would imagine that the timer starts once the Affiliated career ends (Majors and Minors)... but that's just my assumption. I don't know the hard facts on this one either.