View Full Version : New Look To The Main Site
Max Power
02-23-2003, 10:20 PM
see: www.netshrine.com
thoughts, feedback, suggestions always appreciated!
Thanks!
JamesI
02-23-2003, 10:47 PM
Nice new look.
Max Power
02-23-2003, 10:53 PM
Thanks - it's not 100% where I want it - - hopefully soon.
JamesI
02-23-2003, 10:55 PM
Is anything ever 100% where we want it?
Keep fiddling as long as its enjoyable, but the site is good now.
Max Power
02-24-2003, 07:10 AM
Already made some teaks this AM! More to come in the next few days............
Took a bit of getting used to - and I guess I'm not the only one given the lack of responses here so far. I like that it more blatantly puts the focus on NetShrine as a whole but am not sure about the layout of the display. I think my qualms are mostly just (1) newness, and (2) missing having more formally defined borders between the areas. Number (1) will pass, and (2) is just personal preference and no big deal.
I do think, though, that since the NDF is so popular, it'd be nice if its link said 'Discussion Forum' or something more specific than 'Forums'. The latter doesnt really grab the attention of someone wandering onto the site.
Regarding the Gallery, since the descriptions for the various sections are now front and center, I'm not sure if the the word 'whom' or 'who' is most correct here (perhaps both are fine), but 'whom' seems stilted to me. I'd also prefer the best of the best to simply say so. Apicals - The Greatest Base Ball Players of All Time/The Best of the Best/The All-Time Greats (or somesuch). Leave the 'among the' equivocating to the other categories. For that matter category titles that most visitors would understand, other than Supernals and (esp.) Apicals, might be a good idea too.
Hey - you asked. :p
Max Power
02-24-2003, 05:44 PM
Skip - thanks!
Yeah, I was a little surprised by the lack of feedback to date. I'm sure that, in itself, means something.
The intent was to give the Gallery more focus - - it is after all where the name "NetShrine" came about. In the last format, I think the Gallery was the most overlooked part of the site - - which was bad.
The new format will start to grow on you, I hope. And, I do have some changes that I want to work on tonight (time willing) that might help on the eye.
I see your point around the forum link - - - I'm still wrestling about whether "Discussion Forum" is redundant. Maybe I need another word? I'm open for suggestions.............
I'm still mulling a number of things about how the Gallery looks and reads. Probably will be playing with that for a while..........Supernals and Apicals will be staying though. Gotta have some uniqueness about what NetShrine is doing - - and, I'm 99.99% sure no one else is using those distinction labels. ;)
Originally posted by Max Power
I see your point around the forum link - - - I'm still wrestling about whether "Discussion Forum" is redundant. Maybe I need another word? I'm open for suggestions.............
Supernals and Apicals will be staying though. I dont think Discussion Forum is redundant (maybe it is formally, but the term forum is used so generically, that putting Discussion in front of it does provide additional clarity.) I knew Supernals and Apicals were staying - we had that discussion back when you changed the 'Shrine around last time - I just felt like pulling your chain. :)
satchel
02-24-2003, 06:57 PM
Originally posted by Skip
I'm not sure if the the word 'whom' or 'who' is most correct here (perhaps both are fine), but 'whom' seems stilted to me.
"Whom" is not stilted - it's wrong. Steve, it should read "who."
"Whom" is only used where the pronoun is functioning as the object of a verb - as in, "the player whom I most admire is Joe Shlabotnik." there, "whom" is the object of "admire"
"Who" is proper where the pronoun is functioning the subject of a verb - as in, "the player who struck out three times" There, "who" is the subject of "struck out"
On the main page, the pronoun "whom" is functioning as the subject of "were" and "performed" - so it should read "who."
Sorry for the boring grammar lesson, but once something like this is brought to my attention I can't resist ... I was an editor for too long ...
Other than that, I really like the new organization.
Max Power
02-24-2003, 07:56 PM
Thanks - to both! - Satch.
Max Power
02-24-2003, 10:34 PM
Originally posted by Max Power
And, I do have some changes that I want to work on tonight (time willing) that might help on the eye.
Done!
I won't harp on it any more after this, but I would like to see the NDF have a more prominent place on the NetShrine main page. I am glad to see the Gallery get its proper place in center stage, but the fact is that the NDF is the most visited and by far the most dynamic part of NetShrine. The other areas are great, but they don't change too often and they will not be the reasons for regular, repeated visits. I think there must be a way to properly emphasize the Shrine part of NetShrine while also not sublimating the discussion boards. When the link to the NetShrine store is larger than that for the NDF, things seem a bit askew. Perhaps break the right hand section into four parts by adding a more colorful/eye-catching link to the NDF? (note: I felt this way on the old layout too, just never got around to saying anything about it - and the NDF is even more 'hidden' in this new layout.)
Anyway - I'll now defer to those who have yet to weigh in.
Max Power
02-24-2003, 10:58 PM
Food for thought Skip - - thanks!
Allow me to mull...............
Max Power
02-25-2003, 05:17 AM
Here's a question..............
Say you had a "store" that sold a number of products.
One particular product had a lot of traffic, because of the nature of the product - people just flat out liked the product without you, as the owner, having to do much with it. When they came into the store, they always checked it out (without you doing much in the terms of suggestion) and they often "signed on" with the product by buying it. The success of the product was somewhat tied into "word of mouth" - and others mentioning it to their friends was the main driver behind the success of the product traffic.
The others products in the store did not do as well. Some got attention. Others seemed never to get attention.
As the owner, you're about to approve a full page ad for your store in the largest paper in town.
In determining what would appear in the ad - and how often and how large - would you be more inclined to focus on the things that needed help getting folk's attention - - and, would you even bother with much space on the "product" that was already doing well (pretty much all by itself)?
Not sure if this is the right way to look at this - - - just something that came to me last night - - and I thought it would be interesting to float it out here - - - to address the point Skip made....thoughts?
Max Power
02-25-2003, 05:21 AM
Another related thing to share - in the "old" format, the only link to the NDF was the "one" on the main page, by RUMINATIONS and INTERVIEWS. That was it. With the new format, eventually, there will be a link to the NDF - just as it appears at the top of the new main site - on every section of NetShrine - - once I have the time to get around to it.
Just sharing this fact - since I was the only one to know it, until now - and thought it might address. in some ways, the concern around the NDF not getting enough "plug" as compared to other things on the site.
WiredTiger
02-25-2003, 08:26 AM
I like the new look. Little tweaks and redesigns keep things fresh. ESPN does it all the time.
TimmyB
02-25-2003, 09:01 AM
For what it's worth:
I have netshrine.com bookmarked, yet, rarely enter the site that way, as I usually have some reply to a thread in which I've posted sitting in my inbox, so I most often follow the link to the reply and then do my NDF stuff from there... and then I've used up about whatever free time I have these days and it's off to work/parenting/sleep/etc.
That said, on occassion I head to the NDF via the bookmark. I've poked around a little.
Upon seeing the new design today a couple of things popped out at me that haven't popped out in quite a while and I checked some of them out (the players, the Supernals for starters).
Your store analogy is fitting. You have to use some skill in merchanidising the product. And if you can get people to see product in which they may be interested that they haven't seen before... or get them to see product they've seen before in a different (hopefully better) light... then... well done.
KCBOOMER
02-25-2003, 09:50 AM
I guess I didn't reply earlier because I am somewhat reticent to criticize someone else's work when I am a beneficiary of that work. As a note NDF is my home page.
I found the new layout to be confusing and the color scheme garish. Quite a bit of the main page does not appear on the screen unless you scroll down.
The Gallery has never been of interest to me (it's simply too large) so emphasizing it was of no interest to me. And there is no way a first time visitor is going to have a clue as to what "Supernal" and "Apical" signifies.
Is this a big deal to me? Not in the least really. I love the site, I greatly appreciate the work that goes into it, and I only use the main page to get to the forums.
satchel
02-25-2003, 10:02 AM
Originally posted by Max Power
Thanks - to both! - Satch.
You're welcome - though I'm also prepared to apologize for having been so shamelessly pedantic. :o
Thinking about Boomer's comments above - here's my perspective. I rarely visit the main site; my bookmark is to the Forums page, so I don't even go through the main site. I've browsed the sections of the main site several times over the past couple years, though, and will likely do so again once in a while in the future. So that's where I'm coming from.
The 'Shrine is Steve's vision. Even though I use the site principally for the NDF, I have always had the impression that the Gallery was his main purpose, and the NDF a (high-maintenance) sidelight. For that reason alone, I think the Gallery should be center stage, as it is the heart and soul of Steve's mission. Yes, he uses unique names for his Gallery categories - but they are all defined right there on the main page. I think it works well.
WiredTiger
02-25-2003, 10:21 AM
I think it will help to have a link back to www.netshrine.com on the pages of the forum. You get a lot of press and attention for the forums but there isn't really a way to get back to the main page if you come in through http://www.netshrine.com/vbulletin2
pathogan
02-25-2003, 11:39 AM
...it loads easier, it's easier on the eye{the grammar notwithstanding,Satch},the links are accesible,it's afar less jumbled...I think it is a vast improvement
sweaver
02-25-2003, 02:25 PM
Originally posted by satchel
The 'Shrine is Steve's vision. Even though I use the site principally for the NDF, I have always had the impression that the Gallery was his main purpose, and the NDF a (high-maintenance) sidelight. For that reason alone, I think the Gallery should be center stage, as it is the heart and soul of Steve's mission. Yes, he uses unique names for his Gallery categories - but they are all defined right there on the main page. I think it works well. What Satch said. :agree:
SmedIndy
02-25-2003, 04:03 PM
I dig Steve - I dig....
Max Power
02-25-2003, 05:01 PM
Originally posted by WiredTiger
I think it will help to have a link back to www.netshrine.com on the pages of the forum. You get a lot of press and attention for the forums but there isn't really a way to get back to the main page if you come in through http://www.netshrine.com/vbulletin2
It's at the bottom of every page - by the NDFCS link, etc.
Max Power
02-25-2003, 05:02 PM
Originally posted by SmedIndy
I dig Steve - I dig....
Originally posted by pathogan
...it loads easier, it's easier on the eye{the grammar notwithstanding,Satch},the links are accesible,it's afar less jumbled...I think it is a vast improvement
Thanks guys - - - a lot.
Others - I will get to your posts tonight - - thanks.
Max Power
02-25-2003, 07:03 PM
Originally posted by WiredTiger
I like the new look. Little tweaks and redesigns keep things fresh. ESPN does it all the time.
I've lost track - this is at least the 5th "version" of "netshrine" in the last 4 years.............you have to keep improving and upgrading when you can - - I'm trying.
Max Power
02-25-2003, 07:07 PM
Originally posted by TimmyB
For what it's worth: I have netshrine.com bookmarked, yet, rarely enter the site that way, as I usually have some reply to a thread in which I've posted sitting in my inbox, so I most often follow the link to the reply and then do my NDF stuff from there... and then I've used up about whatever free time I have these days and it's off to work/parenting/sleep/etc.
That said, on occassion I head to the NDF via the bookmark. I've poked around a little.
Upon seeing the new design today a couple of things popped out at me that haven't popped out in quite a while and I checked some of them out (the players, the Supernals for starters).
Re: the red comments - super! This is the kind of effect I had hoped for! As far as going to the NDF in ways other than the "front door" - - no shame in that! In fact, more than 1/2 the time, I use the link
http://www.netshrine.com/vbulletin2/
directly myself.................
Max Power
02-25-2003, 07:16 PM
Originally posted by KCBOOMER
I guess I didn't reply earlier because I am somewhat reticent to criticize someone else's work when I am a beneficiary of that work. As a note NDF is my home page.
Home page, really? That's awesome. Thanks.
Originally posted by KCBOOMER
I found the new layout to be confusing and the color scheme garish. Quite a bit of the main page does not appear on the screen unless you scroll down.
Confusing? How? As in "This is new and I need to get familiar with this now" or "Help! I'm lost and I will never figure this out!"?
Garish? Which color? The Navy Blue, Maroon, White, Black, Brown, Red, Gray...........these are all basic colors. Can you explain? As far as the scrolling - - do not most web pages, personal or commerical require some scrolling?
Originally posted by KCBOOMER
And there is no way a first time visitor is going to have a clue as to what "Supernal" and "Apical" signifies.
Even with the descriptions provided on the page?
Originally posted by KCBOOMER
Is this a big deal to me? Not in the least really. I love the site, I greatly appreciate the work that goes into it, and I only use the main page to get to the forums.
This I love to see - thanks. And, again, whatever people choose to use, and how they get there, is fine and dandy! :D
Max Power
02-25-2003, 07:25 PM
Originally posted by satchel
The 'Shrine is Steve's vision. Even though I use the site principally for the NDF, I have always had the impression that the Gallery was his main purpose, and the NDF a (high-maintenance) sidelight. For that reason alone, I think the Gallery should be center stage, as it is the heart and soul of Steve's mission. Yes, he uses unique names for his Gallery categories - but they are all defined right there on the main page. I think it works well.
That's right Satch - - "NetShrine" started with the Gallery.
Six months later, Ruminations and Interviews came along. Then, other stuff. In fact, the "first" NDF didn't become a fact until more than a year after "NetShrine" was launched.
All along, the forum was seen as a method to get the site more traffic. But, something happened - - the forum took off - - - more than I ever imagined. Still, while the NDF gets the most "play" out of anything in "NetShrine," I would never consider the roles to have become reversed - - where "NetShrine" is a sidecar to the NDF.
In fact, I would hope that someday soon, I can get back to focusing less on "working on the NDF" and start focusing more on "NetShrine." The NDF is close to being ready to allow me to do that - and, the main site redesign is a start to this whole effort.
Max Power
02-25-2003, 08:10 PM
Back to the redesign, if you look at a number of the popular baseball sites:
http://www.mlb.com/
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/neyer/index
http://www.baseballprimer.com/
http://www.baseball.com/
http://www.baseballamerica.com/
http://www.baseball-reference.com/
you will see that the "new" NetShrine design is actually pretty standard, IMHO.
Max Power
03-02-2003, 08:05 PM
FYI - some cosmetic changes were added to the Gallery today. Hope they help.
hmrsf
03-03-2003, 08:06 AM
I Always pop through the front door. I wish I commented eariler. I love the new design. I still play in there. Thanks Steve!
The Shrine keeps getting better and better!:D
WiredTiger
03-03-2003, 08:17 AM
Originally posted by Max Power
It's at the bottom of every page - by the NDFCS link, etc.
I don't think I ever realized that link was different than the Netshrine Logo at the top which directs you to the forum homepage.
Max Power
03-03-2003, 10:26 AM
Tiger - good point - let me work on that. Thanks.
Max Power
03-03-2003, 07:44 PM
Originally posted by hmrsf
The Shrine keeps getting better and better!
Thanks!
Max Power
03-03-2003, 07:44 PM
Originally posted by WiredTiger
I don't think I ever realized that link was different than the Netshrine Logo at the top which directs you to the forum homepage.
Think that's fixed now!
sweaver
03-04-2003, 12:10 AM
I like the look, better than the previous versions. This one is very pleasing to the eye, and simple to navigate.
Max Power
03-04-2003, 07:18 AM
Originally posted by sweaver
I like the look, better than the previous versions. This one is very pleasing to the eye, and simple to navigate.
Thanks dude.
BTW, someone I know who knows someone that does web development for a living, asked them (the developer) to look at the site the other day (without prompting from me). Their quick review was that it fits the common layout of most sites. That was good news, because that's what I was going for - - a format that people are accustomed to, and therefore more accepted and user friendly.
One thing I'd add to the gallery, that I especially think newcomers would like, is a simple way to list all members of a group.
That is, if a new visitor decides to visit the Apicals to see who NetShrine says are the best of the best, the links are all by era and the person must dig through several sublists. It'd be nice if on the same page there was just a "Complete List" link for those interested in the sum of the parts, more than the parts themselves.
FWIW
Max Power
03-07-2003, 06:56 AM
Originally posted by Skip
One thing I'd add to the gallery, that I especially think newcomers would like, is a simple way to list all members of a group.
That is, if a new visitor decides to visit the Apicals to see who NetShrine says are the best of the best, the links are all by era and the person must dig through several sublists. It'd be nice if on the same page there was just a "Complete List" link for those interested in the sum of the parts, more than the parts themselves.
FWIW
Something like this?
http://www.netshrine.com/directory.html
I know that's there.
I mean something simpler and more direct. Something which would straight from the (for instance) Apicals page give you a scrolling window of all members of that group, alphabetically, including their Gallery entries. I think this is the route most people will come upon the information and many will prefer to see the total list straight-up. Just a suggestion, I dont know what it would take to implement.
Max Power
03-07-2003, 07:25 AM
That would be a lot of work - but, something that I will consider for a while. Thanks.
Ok. So I guess I lose on the NDF 'priority' link issue, but how about renaming the existing NDF link to 'Discussion' or 'Baseball Chat' or somesuch, instead of the generic 'Forums'?
Max Power
03-09-2003, 10:41 AM
There's no winning and losing here Skip - - I'm always considering things..........
Chat implies real time. That would be misleading.
Discussion is:
1 : consideration of a question in open and usually informal debate
2 : a formal treatment of a topic in speech or writing
Forum is:
1 : a public meeting place for open discussion
2 : a medium of open discussion or expression of ideas
Still think forum is better...........
gyb13
03-19-2003, 12:42 PM
going back to WT's point, i think more can be done than just "visit the NetShrine main site" at the bottom of each page. i think it would figure more prominently if it was at the top of each page.
or if at the top there were two logos with links - one for NetShrine, one for NDF
Max Power
03-19-2003, 01:05 PM
Two links would be a special hack - which I want to avoid - - they are a hassle at update time..........same deal with a link at the top of each page
Wolf Hopper
03-29-2003, 07:29 PM
Tweaked it a bit again today - - any thoughts?
Q: What do you see before THE CHALLENGE and THE FRONT OFFICE?
As many as can reply tothe Q would be appreciated - thanks!
nyy26wc
03-30-2003, 12:14 AM
Originally posted by Wolf Hopper
Tweaked it a bit again today - - any thoughts?
Q: What do you see before THE CHALLENGE and THE FRONT OFFICE?
I see a rectangle with a little line above the top horizontal line.
In case this helps you out, I'm using IE 6.0.2600.0000
Agree with Lee. What's it supposed to be - perhaps a stylized movie set 'action' board (whatever they're really called)? A TV?
Wolf Hopper
03-30-2003, 08:31 AM
Thanks guys - - actually, it's a wingding symbol for a folder
Wolf Hopper
03-30-2003, 12:02 PM
Navigating around in the NetShrine Gallery just became easier!
Next time you're at NetShrine.com, look for the "Where Is?" Button and Menu at the upper right part of the site. Now, you can choose someone and go directly to their wing in the NetShrine Gallery.
sweaver
03-31-2003, 08:19 AM
Well, that's good, especially since I wanted to use that as a basis for a thread in the near future...(end teaser).
Wolf Hopper
03-31-2003, 10:35 AM
Hoarding thread ideas for the future? Shame on you! ;)
Crash Course
02-24-2004, 06:39 AM
see: www.netshrine.com
thoughts, feedback, suggestions always appreciated!
Thanks!
Now one year later - plus a day. Folks used to the look by now?
Of course. I can't even remember the 'old' look. I'm lucky to remember what I had for dinner last night. Or if.
Crash Course
02-24-2004, 07:19 AM
That's what happens when you sleep only 2 and 1/2 hours at a time Skip! ;)
Crash Course
03-09-2004, 11:03 PM
Trying something new now on the main site - just a test for now.
Any thoughts on it?
The 'slogan' becomes too overbearing. There's too much dead space on the bottom. I like the drop down menus a lot, but you could also have (1) picture-links for some of the main features to fill up the screen and catch the eye, or (2) other info like a news ticker or favorite links or .... to likewise fill the screen.
I think I'd have been more likely to explore further if I came upon the old front page by accident than I would this one.
Crash Course
03-10-2004, 08:19 AM
Thanks Skip. All good stuff and appreciated!
Anyone else?
WiredTiger
03-10-2004, 09:03 AM
The graphic on the top of the main page takes a long time to load.
Side Note: I tried to use the word "l o g o" instead of graphic and it wouldn't let me. Very odd.
hmrsf
03-10-2004, 09:09 AM
It has all the same stuff but I am afraid the casual lurker may miss the best part and skip the galeries and ruminations. There was so much on the front page.
rc3000
03-10-2004, 09:27 AM
My opinion I like it.
gyb13
03-10-2004, 02:01 PM
me too, simple is always good
Crash Course
03-10-2004, 02:28 PM
Thanks all! This is all good.
Crash Course
03-12-2004, 06:55 PM
There's too much dead space on the bottom. Better now?
Better now?Much, except the pictures change way too fast. Don't know if thats a timing thing you can control, or if it's based on download speed. But each of the 4 was changing on me at a rate of about twice/second.
Crash Course
03-12-2004, 10:08 PM
Actually, it's about a quarter per second. Two fast?
Actually, it's about a quarter per second. Two fast?Are you saying they change at a rate of 1/4 picture per second? Not on my computer. All 4 pictures (not at the same instant mind you) change twice a second. That's eight separate changes per second. I about had an epileptic seizure.
Crash Course
03-13-2004, 09:15 AM
My math was off - - there are 11 slides to the image, and in each slide, two of them change - at the rate of 1/4 second - - but, since two stay the same on BTB slides, they don't change until a 1/2 second - - so, yes, now I see what you were talking about. Anyway, I now slowed it down to 1/2 second per slide.
Craig S.
03-13-2004, 09:38 AM
The speed of the slides is a little better, but having four of them changing at half a second each is still far too quickly. That still means 8 images per second, and that's a tough number to process.
nyy26wc
03-13-2004, 10:50 AM
On my screen, the pictures aren't changing at all.
LeGrandOrange
03-13-2004, 05:15 PM
I'm not really liking the new front page that much because I have to refresh the page 3 or 4 times to get the link to the forum...or anyplace else the main page links to for that matter. That's plumb not cool.
Crash Course
03-13-2004, 08:38 PM
LGO, Lee - you using IE? Cable or dial up?
nyy26wc
03-14-2004, 11:28 AM
LGO, Lee - you using IE? Cable or dial up?
I'm using IE and cable.
LeGrandOrange
03-14-2004, 12:49 PM
I'm using IE and Cable too. But for whatever reason, it still takes an awfully long time to get the forum link. (I refresh because I'm impatient) Plumb don't like that.
Crash Course
03-14-2004, 02:53 PM
Thanks guys. This was good.
I decided to go back to the old one
this test was too much trouble - - I hate it when something does not work for everyone
hmrsf
03-20-2004, 08:30 AM
Thanks guys. This was good.
I decided to go back to the old one
this test was too much trouble - - I hate it when something does not work for everyone
I enjoyed the new look for a day but was secretly pining for the old. The front page is perfect front door for NetShrine. It will take something extrodinary to top what you have. (You came close ;) )
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