no Justice in baseball

[gyb13]

David Justice is retiring...
http://espn.go.com/mlb/news/2003/0206/1504982.html

21 postseason series, including 6 world series (2-4)

[KCBOOMER]

Justice had a very good career, if a little injury shortened.

[JamesI]

He was good. His team always competed for the postseason. He has had a career most of us would envy.

[Max Power]

Offensively, over the last 12 years, very close to Bernie Williams:


1990-2002

OPS DIFF PLAYER LEAGUE
1 Barry Bonds .337 1.093 .757
2 Frank Thomas .238 1.000 .762
3 Larry Walker .221 .977 .756
4 Jeff Bagwell .205 .965 .760
5 Edgar Martinez .201 .962 .761
6 Ken Griffey Jr. .192 .954 .761
7 Gary Sheffield .181 .940 .759
8 Albert Belle .178 .943 .765
9 Rafael Palmeiro .159 .919 .760
10 Juan Gonzalez .149 .911 .763
11 Mo Vaughn .140 .910 .769
12 Ellis Burks .140 .895 .755
13 Sammy Sosa .138 .900 .761
14 Fred McGriff .133 .889 .756
15 David Justice .123 .880 .756
16 Bernie Williams .123 .890 .768
17 John Olerud .120 .882 .762
18 Andres Galarraga .107 .862 .755
19 Luis Gonzalez .088 .852 .763
20 Jeff Kent .087 .855 .768

PLATE APPEARANCES DIFF PLAYER LEAGUE
1 Barry Bonds 1372 8029 6657
2 Frank Thomas 1057 7505 6448
3 Edgar Martinez 983 7240 6257
4 Jeff Bagwell 842 7927 7085
5 John Olerud 762 7729 6967
6 Gary Sheffield 660 6863 6203
7 Rafael Palmeiro 607 8736 8129
8 Larry Walker 605 6727 6122
9 Rickey Henderson 596 6658 6062
10 Mark Grace 595 7989 7394
11 Craig Biggio 583 8633 8050
12 Fred McGriff 525 8100 7575
13 Ken Griffey Jr. 523 7462 6939
14 Tony Phillips 514 6103 5589
15 Bernie Williams 477 6873 6396
16 David Justice 467 6545 6078
17 Roberto Alomar 450 8299 7849
18 Mo Vaughn 446 6314 5868
19 Barry Larkin 412 6740 6328
20 Chuck Knoblauch 390 7385 6995

RUNS CREATED DIFF PLAYER LEAGUE
1 Barry Bonds 1106 1958 852
2 Frank Thomas 709 1540 831
3 Jeff Bagwell 622 1536 914
4 Edgar Martinez 605 1410 805
5 Larry Walker 597 1379 782
6 Ken Griffey Jr. 530 1423 893
7 Rafael Palmeiro 520 1562 1042
8 Gary Sheffield 486 1283 797
9 Fred McGriff 379 1345 966
10 John Olerud 375 1274 899
11 Albert Belle 371 1174 803
12 Bernie Williams 333 1169 836
T13 Roberto Alomar 327 1339 1012
T13 Mo Vaughn 327 1097 770
T13 Sammy Sosa 327 1308 981
16 David Justice 305 1081 776
17 Craig Biggio 302 1334 1032
18 Juan Gonzalez 289 1130 841
19 Ellis Burks 287 1050 763
20 Rickey Henderson 275 1052 777

TOTAL BASES DIFF PLAYER LEAGUE
1 Barry Bonds 1532 4007 2475
2 Ken Griffey Jr. 1102 3692 2590
3 Larry Walker 1098 3370 2272
4 Rafael Palmeiro 1049 4085 3036
5 Frank Thomas 1030 3445 2415
6 Juan Gonzalez 975 3418 2443
7 Jeff Bagwell 944 3592 2648
8 Sammy Sosa 924 3768 2844
9 Albert Belle 895 3214 2319
10 Edgar Martinez 857 3199 2342
11 Fred McGriff 757 3574 2817
12 Gary Sheffield 732 3044 2312
13 Ellis Burks 676 2905 2229
14 Mo Vaughn 651 2868 2217
15 Andres Galarraga 633 2918 2285
16 Dante Bichette 613 3124 2511
17 Matt Williams 558 3086 2528
18 Bernie Williams 548 2968 2420
19 David Justice 527 2796 2269
20 Jeff Kent 478 2794 2316

[TimmyB]

Originally posted by Max Power
Offensively, over the last 12 years, very close to Bernie Williams:

Very interesting. This means I've either been over-rating Bernie or under-rating Justice all these years.

Justice had a fine career -- always managed to find himself in the post-season. Once or twice can be considered an accident of having good team-mates. That's quite a track record.

Although when he came up he had the potential of being a great, he owes no apologies for being merely a damn fine ballplayer.

[satchel]

Originally posted by TimmyB
Very interesting. This means I've either been over-rating Bernie or under-rating Justice all these years.


I had a very similar thought when I looked at the numbers Max posted. I think the truth is probably a little of both, especially for me, since I've always been a Bernie Williams fan and disliked Justice for playing for enemies like Atlanta and Cleveland. (Yes, I changed my tune after he'd been a Yankee for about seven minutes, I admit it. ;) )

I also agree that Justice has nothing to be ashamed of. He's been a very good player on some very good times, put together an impressive postseason record and won a couple of championships along the way. It did always amuse me, however, that prior to 2002 Justice was on the losing side of the previous three World Series Game 7s.

[pathogan]

...had the career Strawberry might have had,save for the demons...

[SmedIndy]

Big difference between Bernie and Dave is their fielding ability, though. Not a straight line comp.

Plus, he would rather watch Sportscenter than be with Hallie Berrie, or so SHE said. Tsk, tsk. :p

[Skip]

I've always liked Justice and considered him underappreciated, and while I've never disliked Bernie I do consider him overrated. Maybe I am right in both cases.

Welcome another member to the Hall of Pretty Gol' Darn Good.

[Max Power]

Originally posted by SmedIndy
Big difference between Bernie and Dave is their fielding ability, though. Not a straight line comp.

Not sure I would agree - - when Justice was in NY, at the end of his career, he did a good job in LF - - - much, much better than I ever expected. And, without question, he has a stronger arm than Bernie. Yes, he didn't have the range to play CF, but, he was a good OF, IMHO - - just that his body did not allow him to be out there often.

To this day, I would love to know what happened in the 2001 World Series. He was absolutely LOST in that one - - never saw ANY batter look more feeble at the plate - ever.

[Max Power]

Originally posted by TimmyB
Very interesting. This means I've either been over-rating Bernie or under-rating Justice all these years.

Of course, there is a difference between the two - Justice was done, probably a year ago, and Bernie is still going strong at the plate.

[satchel]

Originally posted by Max Power

To this day, I would love to know what happened in the 2001 World Series. He was absolutely LOST in that one - - never saw ANY batter look more feeble at the plate - ever.

I agree - those 8 whiffs stand out in my memory as well. The only explanation I can think of is that he was hurt - had some shoulder pain or something that prevented him from getting the bat around quickly.

[JamesI]

Originally posted by SmedIndy
Big difference between Bernie and Dave is their fielding ability, though. Not a straight line comp.

Plus, he would rather watch Sportscenter than be with Hallie Berrie, or so SHE said. Tsk, tsk. :p

Well, Bernie is slowing down in the field, so maybe as time goes on this will appear a better comp.

Watch Sportscenter over Halle? Shame!

[pwdennis]

Originally posted by Skip
Welcome another member to the Hall of Pretty Gol' Darn Good.

sounds about right to me. Here are the current comps for Justice:

Rudy York (915)
Larry Doby (914) *
Greg Luzinski (912)
Kent Hrbek (911)
Darryl Strawberry (908)
Tim Salmon (908)
Tino Martinez (907)
Roy Sievers (906)
Vic Wertz (900)
Mo Vaughn (900)

only Larry Doby, from the early days of integrated baseball is in Cooperstown. Curiously Larry Doby also shows up as the only HOFer in Bernie Williams' current comps:

Luis Gonzalez (905)
Tony Oliva (896)
Minnie Minoso (887)
Larry Doby (880) *
Cy Williams (880)
Carl Furillo (874)
Ray Lankford (873)
Dante Bichette (871)
Bob Meusel (870)
Pedro Guerrero (867)

Of course Bernie still has time to add to his counting stats