Baseball Prospectus - Website Content

[Skip]

While we have at least informal tie-ins here to Baseball Prospectus, via Will (UTK and BPR) and Lee (ATM and SBE), it is surprising to me that no one has brought up the recently announced changes at BP for discussion. ( http://www.baseballprospectus.com/news/20030117announce.shtml )

There is a pretty lively discussion on the changes over at Baseball Primer. ( http://www.baseballprimer.com/clutch/archives/00005654.shtml#comments_136 )

What do you all think about BP switch to a pay site for most content? Has the quality of the site degraded over the past year or so as many at Primer say? Do you expect it to increase? Will you pay? Is this good/bad/just state of the times?

[Max Power]

Since Skip asked, I will offer my :2cents:

I was never a big BP surfer - - not their fault, it's mine. Frankly, a lot of their stuff was over my head. I love baseball stats, but, when complex charts, graphs, deviations and a bunch of mathematical symbols come into play (most of which I have no idea what they mean), I slip into :homer: mode and the circus music starts playing in my head.

So, of course, because I rarely went there, I would not pay for it.

It's been my experience that people will rarely pay for any content (sans porn, maybe) on the Internet since there's always someone else close to it offering it for free.

If you have to go that route, Baseball America does it right. Subscribe to the mag and then you get an on-line sub to the site for free.

BP should think about tying in book orders to site subs too - maybe.

[daredevil456]

They will never get another cent of my money. I bought their 2002 Prospectus book, which I could best describe in one word, awful. Back to Shandler's book from now on.

[Max Power]

Originally posted by daredevil456
I bought their 2002 Prospectus book, which I could best describe in one word, awful.

Just curious - - - what was so bad about it?

[daredevil456]

I read it about a yr ago, and my memory isn't that great, but it just wasn't my cup of tea. I like stats, but this book goes overboard, and some stats are very hard to understand. I bought this book to help prepare for the fantasy season, and it was of no help in that regard. It didn't even offer projections for pitchers.

[pathogan]

...what Steve said is often true for me, too, it often seems like they are discussing quantum mechanics rather then baseball[the circus music metaphor was brilliant, by the way}...would Ipay? don't know...

[Gosfgiants]

I like Joe Sheehan's writing as well as some of the other contributers on BP, but I am not sure I would pay for it either. I was not a subscriber to Sheehan email, and I do not think his return to BP will get me to pony up. I also agree that some of the statisical analyis on BP is too complex for me. (Of course I don't get involved in the statistical arguments here.) If they feel that a change to pay site is the right move, best of luck to them. I hope they keep the Week in Quotes feature stays free.

[Doc Pontoon]

I think that I will pay, which will be a first for me for a non-porn site. Well, Mr. Skin isn't really porn, but I digress. BP is the first site that pops up when I log in (sorry, Netshrine!) because I'd rather read about baseball before anything else, and they have the best batting average for good writing (maybe "OBP" would be more apt there, but it hasn't made its way into English idiom yet.) Too bad I'll have to pay, but I can afford it.

[Craig S.]

Unless they really increase the volume of information offered, I can't imagine subscribing. I check the site out on a daily basis, but I won't pay for what's currently there. I've lived without Rotowire, and I'm sure I can live without BP.

I think Steve's right about the way Baseball America does it - if BP could sell online access as part of a package, I think that would be the way to go.

Whether or not I can afford it isn't the question. It's more a question of is it worth paying for. At this point, I'd say no.

[Glyndwr]

I have never read the book, it is annoyingly difficult to get in Canada for some reason.

I read the website regularly, and it was the place mainly that got me interested in baseball stats. I understand that the math can be off putting for some people, I have studied some Math at University being a techie and I find some of it a bit much. I also understand the dislike some habour for the attitude of some of the writers, undoubtedly there are a couple of over-sized egos on their writing staff. Personally though I have always enjoyed it, I like the Math and a couple of condescending writers is nothing comapred to having to read Richard Griffin all season. Overall the anlysis, especially of trades, is the best around for my taste, I still consider it stronger and more consistenyl interesting than anywhere else including Rob Neyer and the Primer.

Has it gone downhill this year ? Yes a little in that two of what I considered their best three writers left. Sheehan apparently is returning, Keith Law had better not be though as I like him with the Blue Jays :-)

I read the thread on the Primer. As quite often happens with the Primer, I find the noise to traffic rotio to be quite high. There is a lot of disgruntled whining along two themes. Firstly, jealousy frankly, 'The Primer is better than BP any day' etc, BP has a great reputation with the exposure they get on ESPN and they have access to GM's and baseball people that the Primer writers do not, and a lot of the people who hang out at the Primer do not like it. Secondly, the old I am not paying for something that used to be free chestnut. Well, you had better get used to it because I think this is very late in the day for getting everything free on the Net. Buried it amongst it though are some good points, the bottom line being this was probably the only way they could continue and keep the quality high, Their writers obviously give up a lot of time and make little if any money from it, if they are going to keep the good people on board they need to restructure the business model.

Will I be subscribing ? Right now, no - I am out of work and watching my low-value canadian cents, when I get a job, yes - I think there is enough high quality and original content there to make it worth one grande latte a month . I drink too much coffee as it is.

[sweaver]

Originally posted by pathogan
... it often seems like they are discussing quantum mechanics rather then baseball Well, I do discuss quantum mechanics in my job, and some of the BP statistical discussions still make my head spin.

I like BP very much, but do not plan to subscribe. For me, it is mostly a money issue, as I have little disposable income that is not already disposed of. There are supposed to be some parts of the site that will remain free, so I will continue to frequent those.

I would like to encourage others that wish to do so to sign up, and support the work of our friend Will Carroll. Part of that sign-up fee goes to Will.

[cubfan33]

Thanks Sweaver ... but I think these are all very valid arguments and much better presented than over at Primer.

I hope you all will read BP for the month of Feb (and late Jan). Our content frequency is exploding - I'll be daily, Joe will be daily once his commitment to his subscribers end, and you'll get the amazing PECOTA stuff as well. Trust me, if you have the money to spare and believe me, I've had months where I didn't, I'll try to make it worthwhile.

We want to earn your money, but we also want to earn a living. This IS my day job.

[Skip]

No offense was meant Will, or Lee, or anyone, if any was taken. I just think that BP is a widely recognized site undergoing a major change and thought it should be discussed. My thoughts on the all over the place tangential (Ackbar) conversations over at Primer are (or so I thought) pretty well known.

[Husier]

I ponied up my $40 bucks ... it's only money, and BP has a year to convince me their site is worth the investment. Sometimes you gotta take a chance ...

[cubfan33]

No offense taken at all! I appreciate the candor and never want Netshrine to shy away from any topic, especially if it can help make BP -- or anything baseball -- better. It is a massive change and for a lot of people, change is bad and scary. I miss a lot of things about the Net, but the fact is the days of "everything's free" are over and in order to keep up quality, we need the dollars to do it.

Like I said, if we're worth it -- and we're working hard to be -- then you'll pay and if not, you won't. We can still be friends either way.

One quick Primer comment ... Someone complained that we don't have Primer style discussion forums. I almost replied "you know, I've had a discussion forum over on Netshrine for a year now ..." but then I realized that I didn't want THAT crowd moving over here to "Akbar" some of the great baseball talk we have here.

And one question ... let's say you've completely ruled out subbing to BP but you know you'll miss the content. Where will you go? I don't mean to sound smug, but I just don't know anywhere else that does the same thing and if it's out there, I'd LOVE to read it. Lee is consistently good, there's good blogs/fansites like Twinsgeek and Newberg, but I don't know anyplace that does what BP does.

[Craig S.]

Will, I'm not opposed to subscribing if your comment about content frequency stays true. I have noticed that there are more regular updates, which is important to me. And I agree that we can't expect everything online to be free anymore, but are there any dramatic changes that are being made to pump the site up a little?

I'll likely do the same thing with BP that I always do with other sports pay services. I'll swear it off, and then I'll end subscribing.

[KCBOOMER]

BP was daily must reading for me, but $40 is too steep for this hombre. I'll miss it.

[SmedIndy]

I buy the book and I do enjoy the web.

It would all depend on what is on the pay site. If it's Pappas, Carroll and the Transaction Analysis - I'd pay for it.

[cubfan33]

Here's what you get for your money:

Me.


Oh, you want more?

Joe Sheehan's newsletter three times a week. As you know, Joe was formerly with BP, left, and is now coming back. There's some sample newsletters up on the site (linked from "State of the Prospectus"). Joe's one of my favorite baseball rides and it makes me happy to be associated with him in any way.

Transaction Analysis will be Premium and will run once a week, minimum. One of my beefs with it was the spotty nature, but damn that Chris Kahrl, he had to make money with a job too.

Nate Silver's PECOTA cards - the most accurate system of player projections available - will also be behind the Premium wall.

You'll also get pieces from Gary Huckabay, Doug Pappas, Jonah Keri (One Q&A a week!) and the rest of the crew in much the way that we show up on ESPN. Expect high quality, thought provoking stuff since we'll KNOW we have an interested, active audience.

Content is going way up, even based on me doing a daily. But beyond me, expect about two new pieces a day. I wish I could share what I can see on our scheduling calendar, but you know I cant do that :)

I can't make guarantees or promises, but I think anyone that takes the chance and subscribes will feel that they've gotten their money's worth by the end of the year. Keep your eye on us through March 1st and I think you'll like what you see, both quality and quantity wise.

[Doc Pontoon]

Say, Will, it sure would be great if you guys could lure Jim Baker from ESPN...

[cubfan33]

Say Doc, it sure would be nice if we had as much money as ESPN. :)

Jim has a NICE gig and it would be very difficult to lure him away.

That said, Jim is a confirmed guest for BPR. He hasn't done a lot of radio, so giving him an outlet will be awesome.

[poorme]

can't afford $40

BP is pretty good, but too smug. a lot of the analysis isn't nearly as clever as they think it is. the voros mccracken (sp?) thing was that clever.

[gyb13]

i'm still undecided, as i only saw these changes today... my initial feeling was no, but maybe i'll give it a shot for one year and see where it goes.

[SmedIndy]

I'm undecided....the Transaction Analysis was always the highlight of my week. (I know, I lead a shallow superficial life), and it may be worth the scratch.

But how am I gonna pay for BP, Katie's diapers AND my growing wish list at Amazon.com?

[Kev]

I will probably subscribe to BP, and I'll throw out this somewhat tangiential tidbit:

I'm reading a book called "Son of Websites that Suck" by Vincent Flanders. In case you don't know the shtick, Flanders teaches good website design by pointing out the flaws in bad website design. He often kvetches about web pages that take too long to load, and he says there are very few things that people will wait a long time to download online. Similarly, he says, there are very few things people will pay to see online. Porn is one. Heroin content is another.

Heroin content is content that people can't get anywhere else and simply can't get enough of. He uses that term because people apparently will crawl through the sewers just to beg to buy heroin.

Does BP contain heroin content? I don't know. I've never done drugs. But is BP the first place I go for intelligent analysis? Has BP made me look at baseball in an entirely new way? Did BP 2001 cost me hours of sleep? Is the level of analysis constantly improving? And can anyone else match the innovative techniques used by the BP writers?

Yes, yes, yes, yes, and no.

Hell, what am I saying? I'll "probably" subscribe? Who am I kidding?

[Max Power]

Very interesting Kev!

[cubfan33]

Hope you re-consider, Poorme.

I'll give you the smug, but as interesting as Voros' work is, it's also the least proven of the theories BP has tossed out in the last couple years. There are those that think DIPS is worthless. Honestly, I don't understand the study enough to comment intelligently. I do know that something that states that the outcome is random doesn't have anything solid, since if we don't know, we have to assume some degree of chaos.

Like PAP, like E/S, like a couple others, DIPS may be a good first step towards a solution, rather than the solution itself.

[Sal Maglie]

I'm not entirely sold on the PECOTA system. Has there been any regression studies done to see if it actually works? Is there any place I can read about the ins and outs of PECO
TA without having to pry open my wallet?

[sweaver]

Got an e-mail today that I can get a $5 discount on BP premium as a UTK subscriber. That could make a difference.

[KCBOOMER]

If Allard Baird, who needs it more than I do, doesn't subscribe why should I???

[Skip]

Originally posted by KCBOOMER
If Allard Baird, who needs it more than I do, doesn't subscribe why should I??? Perhaps he subscribes anonymously - under the nom de plume KCBOOMER? :devil: :stinker:

[KCBOOMER]

Originally posted by Skip
Perhaps he subscribes anonymously - under the nom de plume KCBOOMER? :devil: :stinker:

That is a truly evil insult, beside if he needs it more than I do how can he be me.

[Skip]

Just yankin' your chain dude. :)

[cubfan33]

Sal - there's a full explanation of PECOTA in this year's book. It should ship next Monday (yaaaay!)

BTW, I just have to say this. I saw the image of the cover and there on the back, in the little box of authors name, is "Will Carroll." I'm not sure I can express the feeling.

[rcartman28]

I'm really tempted, but I don't think I can really afford to subscribe, either (even with the $5 discount for being a UTK subscriber). We're closing on a house in mid-February and I keep getting hit with more "unexpected" expenses for our wedding in May (last week I got to put down a deposit for our wedding photographer). I do plan to order the book, though......

[gyb13]

Will, who's that on the cover - Brandon Phillips?

[cubfan33]

Josh Phelps


Understand on your dilemma, rcartman. $40 isnt insignificant and in situations like that, you have to make a value judgement. There will still be some good free stuff and maybe later in the year, when money's freer and if you're needing your UTK fix, you'll join.

[nyyfanfrombirth]

I'm gonna drop the $ on it. I've become addicted to BP over the last year or so. Question, I got 2 emails offering the $5 discount -- one for being a UTK subscriber and one for being a Sheehan Newsletter subscriber. Can I combine the 2 for a $10 discount? :) Just kidding. These people definitely deserve to be paid for their time and hard work. I felt really bad when Lee said that he spent about 30 hours a week on the ATM reports.

[cubfan33]

I still can't believe Lee can do all that work in thirty hours! The guys amazing. The SBE on it's own is well worth the money, but it's even MORE worth it to support Lee's work.

Each of my Team Health Reports takes about two hours for me to research and write. My editors (yeah, two of em) probably take an hour each. During the year, a UTK is often a three hour a day process.

[Max Power]

Does anyone know if the book has shipped? BP' sites still reads that it was scheduled to ship 2/1/03.

[SmedIndy]

My Amazon.com order just shipped without it....they didn't have an update there.

[cubfan33]

The truck left the publisher today. Direct ships will be in post tomorrow, Amazon's by the start of next week.

2/1 ship date was WEEK OF 2/1, so we weren't far off.

(I'll be the one in Barnes and Noble, pointing at my name on the cover and giggling uncontrollably!)

[Max Power]

Thanks Will - - and, have fun at B&N.

[SmedIndy]

He was giggling uncontrollably last night - but that was the barley wine!

I hope this year's cover star can escape the Hidalgo curse!

[Kranepool]

Well I am hooked on BP and Will's UTK so I will pay the freight. I also keep waiting for my copy of BP to arrive. Some guys drink, smoke, gamble or caurose I do not partake in those vices. Mine is sports especially baseball. Look if I bring my lunch from home to work for a week it more than makes up for the price of BP plus I do enjoy a peanut butter and jelly sandwich

[LisaG]

40 smackers? well, i look at it this way. 40 bucks is just about what a tube of anti-wrinkle cream costs (for 1 month). my dogs have assured me that they will continue to worship me regardless of the number of lines on my face(dog food = true luv). my sons have assured me that as long as i continue to pick up all the toys they throw out of their playpen that they will continue to love me dry skin or not. and my husband assures me that he will continue to love me as long as dinner is on the table every night and i remain headache-free, lines or not. so, to me, one month advancement of wrinkle-city in exchange for will, jonah, derek, lee, joe and gang seems like a very good deal indeed.

[cubfan33]

You know, Lisa, we always try to keep our BP customers happy. Not only is your money better spent on BP than wrinkle cream, you also get ... Dr. Rany Jazayerli, dermatologist, who could help with the dry skin! :)

(Really, he is!)

[nyy26wc]

Originally posted by LisaG
one month advancement of wrinkle-city in exchange for will, .... lee, .... and gang seems like a very good deal indeed.

I just have to point out, for completeness, that I'm not part of BP. Tomorrow I announce that I've reached a deal with them regarding my predictions contest. But, otherwise, we're two different businesses (it's great that we could actually build businesses around this. I never thought I'd be able to pull it off, but there's no way I'm going to complain).

[LisaG]

dear lee and will, i really envy you guys. to get PAID for doing what you happen to wanna do anyway is definitely the way to live. the rest of us hafta work to support our baseball habits. i sure would like to have a job that pertains to baseball. and will, while i actually would like to meet rany, it would be to discuss the 4 man rotation. anyway, i'm not old enough to need a dermatologist. i think. i hope.

[nyy26wc]

Originally posted by LisaG
dear lee and will, i really envy you guys. to get PAID for doing what you happen to wanna do anyway is definitely the way to live.

I think it is safe for me to include Will in this comment--

We'd like to thank you for your support. It really is a great thing to be able to live a dream and we couldn't do it without the support of our audience.

[cubfan33]

VERY safe to include me in that. It is a dream. This time last year I was sitting here, waiting for my BP to come.

This year, my article will be in it.

Yep, I would have LAUGHED if someone had suggested it.

It's a dream we're living. Not a lucrative dream (I lost about three grand on UTK last year), but a dream.

[Skip]

Well, for what its worth - I went ahead today and ordered my copy of BP and signed up for the premium online content. It's only money.

Happy Valentines Day Will. :beer:

[cubfan33]

For starting an intelligent thread and for putting a couple bucks in my pocket. I'll work hard to make it worth your dollars.

[Skip]

Originally posted by cubfan33
... For starting an intelligent thread I try to do that at least once every couple of months.

[pathogan]

...is ordering this for me for Valentines day on Friday,so if it's not worth it,hell I have Will's e-mail adress:D

[Whohangs]

I probably will not subscribe. I really enjoy Baseball Prospectus, Transaction Analysis in particular, but $40 seems steep to me. The only written media I subscribe to that I can make a comparison to is Sports Illustrated and that is less than $40 nearly weekly for a full year...

$20 would be a no-brainer for me, $30 would be probably, $40 is probably not...

[cubfan33]

For those of you that pre-ordered directly, the truck pulled away yesterday and they should start arriving in your mailboxes or doorsteps by the end of the week. Mine will be here Thursday ...

[cubfan33]

You compare us to SI? SI? Oh man ... please DONT subscribe.

[LisaG]

dear whohangs? why on earth would you rather read SI's um, lousy coverage that BP's excellent ones? you can't possibly compare tom verducci and that jerk rick reilly to the guys at BP? i'll read verducci on the web, but i would never PAY for it

[Whohangs]

I read Sports Illustrated for their coverage of different sports and sports figures, while I read Baseball Prospectus for analysis on baseball. Personally, I follow most of the major sports and even enjoy the pieces on figures in sports I don't follow (ie. golf, hockey, nascar). I think the articles they write on teams and individuals is good. I don't think Baseball Prospectus covers baseball. I think they analyze baseball.

To me those SI articles (and the very good photos) are entertaining to me. So someone like me shouldn't like both Sports Illustrated and a website like Baseball Prospectus? :ashamed: Oh well.

[Doc Pontoon]

I don't think Baseball Prospectus covers baseball. I think they analyze baseball. Is that kind of like, "Whoever inspected it detected it?" No, I'm just farting around. That distinction is somewhat meaningful, plus SI sure does have a great once-a-year knack for celebrating the female form (exaggerated ideal category.) And they do cover other sports, whatever those may be.

Reilly is genuinely a bum, though, a small man who is poison to the very concept of journalism.

[Skip]

Hey all - Please, lets keep the discussion here on the BP Website content, not on the Prospectus itself (there's another thread active right now for that), and not on bashing other publications.

Thank you, Thank you very much.

[daredevil456]

Can someone please enlighten me? What is so great about Baseball Prospectus? Why would you pay for it? What am I missing? I like Will's reports, but I bought the BP book last yr and I thought it was awful.

[Skip]

Again, this thread is for discussing the website content provided by BP, in particular now that it is primarily to be a pay site. To discuss the BP book, please use this thread: http://www.netshrine.com/vbulletin2/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8601

[Max Power]

To tack on to Skip's PSA - - two more things I would like to remind folks of - - since this thread brings out so many different opinions.

Certain topics evoke strong passions, and the NetShrine Discussion Forum aims to provide a safe place for the free expression of those passions and differing views. Members must provide respect to other values, opinions, and ideas even if they strongly disagree with those ideas.

Getting everyone to agree is not a healthy goal. If there are differing viewpoints, members must recognize when to stop advancing a point of view and let a discussion stand, as is.

OK, back to your regularly scheduled program.............

[gyb13]

I decided to pay. One added benefit of doing that was that I instantly started receiving Sheehan's email newsletter, plus access to its archives.

[Skip]

Uh oh. Its been 4 days since I decided to pay, and I haven't seen anything from Sheehan. Adding this to robls's comment in the BP book thread about direct orders being lost (I did that at the same time) I wonder if I've been double deleted. Was it really 'instantly' Gyb?

[gyb13]

Originally posted by Skip
Was it really 'instantly' Gyb? i received the last two (Feb 8 and 11). so i guess it depends when you signed up.

[Skip]

Well, I got a confirmation email on the website (though not on the book) so I'd have expected to be getting anything since the 8th. This is not a good way for this to start. :(

[pathogan]

Originally posted by gyb13
I decided to pay. One added benefit of doing that was that I instantly started receiving Sheehan's email newsletter, plus access to its archives.

...though skip, your expierence does not bode well...

[gyb13]

skIp - i got another sheehan newsletter this afternoon.

BP is good, but they do have quite a bit of high profile technical issues (remember the ERA-PERA switch on the books last yr?)

[cubfan33]

All VERY good points. The errors, while minor, are annoying. What has to be remembered is that (besides me and Joe) no one in BP makes their living doing it. Essentially, you're seeing the world's coolest hobby-created book and website.

That said, this is part of the Premium move. To be more professional, we have to be able to pay for professional quality people and services. It's bad to see a problem like we've had, but we're working hard to correct them as best we can. While we can't be perfect, we can try to make things right.

As I've said - and I hope everyone will remember this - just email me. It's always on the site, you can email me through Netshrine and some of you even have my cell number. I'll do what I can to make your BP experience worth every penny.

[Max Power]

For the record, stuff happens.

I'm an on-line member to BaseballAmerica.com

I've been buying BBA for YEARS.........and, on the phone, they have the best customer service crew on the earth.

Two weeks ago, my logon to their site failed. I've e-mailed three times over the last 14 days and no one has gotten back to me - - zip - - and the problem still exists.

Stuff happens all over.

Damn internet! :D

[daredevil456]

How is the Sheehan newsletter I have heard a couple of you mention it? Would you recommend it, or any other newsletters.

[cubfan33]

Joe is probably my favorite writer of baseball. When he left BP and there were months without his stuff, I moped. (Lee Sinins is a close second and kept me going). What Joe does is amazing - he takes serious baseball analysis and makes it readable, which after trying to do it myself I realize how hard it is. Joe may not be as laugh out loud funny as Gary Huckabay, but he's flat out solid. I've never read a piece of his and gone "that sucks." There's some samples of his work on the Baseball Prospectus Premium page. http://premium.baseballprospectus.com/

[cubfan33]

By the way, I'm really not biased in my assessment of Joe's work. Even if he wasn't back at BP, I'd still pay for his newsletter.

[rcartman28]

Having figured out my taxes and seeing that I'm getting back close to $600 (thank god for bad stock investments), I decided to splurge and use my "Under the Knife" coupon to subscribe. Hopefully, that book will arrive soon, too.....

Now, will there ever be a Pizza Feed in Minneapolis/St. Paul ???

[pathogan]

Originally posted by daredevil456
How is the Sheehan newsletter I have heard a couple of you mention it? Would you recommend it, or any other newsletters.


are my two favorite presently{though Jim Baker at espn is great,too} Sheehans stuff is terrific,reading him than Lee[or vice versa} is wonderful, and illuminating{though they are both Yankee fans]

[nyyfanfrombirth]

I really enjoy Joe's newsletter, I think it was definitely worth the initial investment of $19.95, and I'm glad he's back to a more regular schedule of publishing. Hey Will, is the BP site going to be redesigned so it's a little more aesthetically pleasing :) ? Just wondering.

[LisaG]

whohangs, i see why you like SI. i am a baseball only fan, and i guess i'm somewhat of a stats geek too, so i prefer excellent baseball analysis to stories. too many articles i have read in SI are devoid of any intelligent discussion of BASEBALL and the real interest of the writers seem to be worshiping or denegrating the PLAYER as a person, not as a player (jeff perlman or that creep reilly). and quite frankly, they seem to go out of their way to sound like a bitchy teenage gossipy girl.

[LisaG]

i agree- joe sheehan writes the best baseball letter. and so does lee. (once you understand all the abbreviations). on the other hand, i still like watching the game the best.

[cubfan33]

Thanks to all ...

Site redesign? Maybe :)

Minny/St Paul - yes, Keith Scherer is up that way and has discussed it. Email him and beg.

[RichG]

I signed up for the service and got a confirmation on the tenth but have heard received nothing from Baseball Prospectus regarding the daily email with links.

Is anyone receiving anything yet?

[Skip]

Not me. I signed up the eighth and got a confirmation too. I've also emailed cs@baseballprospectus.com with no response.

[RichG]

I think the premium content starts on March first but I ASSumed there would have been something like a welcome note to give me some assurance more than the receipt.

After hearing other people mention their book orders went into the ether I was concerned that come March 1 if there was a problem it would take a long time to get things fixed.

I look forward to the service but I don't think I would have purchased it without the $5 discount I got from Joe Sheehan's newsletter since the fee is for the calendar year, not 365 days. That'd make the regular fee of $39.95 for the 10 remaining months of 2003 closer to $48 annualized. Oh well, I still anticipate being satisfied but they might have trouble getting people to renew in the dead of the winter come January 2004 when they're down to semiweekly offerings.

[Rajah]

Originally posted by RichG
I think the premium content starts on March first but I ASSumed there would have been something like a welcome note to give me some assurance more than the receipt.

After hearing other people mention their book orders went into the ether I was concerned that come March 1 if there was a problem it would take a long time to get things fixed.

I look forward to the service but I don't think I would have purchased it without the $5 discount I got from Joe Sheehan's newsletter since the fee is for the calendar year, not 365 days. That'd make the regular fee of $39.95 for the 10 remaining months of 2003 closer to $48 annualized. Oh well, I still anticipate being satisfied but they might have trouble getting people to renew in the dead of the winter come January 2004 when they're down to semiweekly offerings.

I haven't decided one way or another yet, but that certainly tilts the decision in "to not purchase" direction. 40 dollars for 10 months? Phew.

[cubfan33]

Just an update ... there were no book orders "lost". When ordering, if the person did not click all the way through, the transaction wouldn't happen. In the instructions, it said a confirmation email would be sent out. If someone didn't get it, well, seems pretty simple that it didn't go through. Admittedly, we need to simplify the process, but nothing was LOST. We're workiing overtime to make sure everyone that ordered a book gets a book.

I'm doublechecking the dates for a Premium subscription. I'll have an answer asap.

[RichG]

I haven't gotten a response from BP Premium about how to access their Premium area beginning March 1 after sending two notes to them plus one I wrote just before writing this.

I received a mail message entitled "Welcome to BP Premium" on the 24th but there was nothing in the body of the note.

I'm trying to give them the benefit of the doubt since they're new at this but I would have appreciated responses to my queries on the 17th and 24th. It's doesn't look like things are going to run smoothly come March 1.

Has anyone received anything concrete from them? I'd like to think it's just me having a problem.

[rcartman28]

I also received a welcome message from them (BP) on the 24th but no info about how to access the premium site, either....so far, when I've tried to access Sheehan's "archive" I've been asked for a username and password, which hasn't worked so far. I am not sure if that is because it isn't set up or because there is a firewall at my day job (my home computer is still in boxes from last weekend's move and probably won't be unpacked until at least this weekend) computer....

[Skip]

rcartman - after a few unanswered emails, i got a response which gave me a (temporary, i assume) user id and password to get into Sheehan's archive. I don't know if it dies after 3/1. i dont know if this is the same way everyone is getting in or if their help guy just sent me his to shut me up! I'm definitely still not getting Sheehan's emails like gyb13 said he was.

Also this a.m. (1:43 a.m. in fact) I got an email with a subject line thanking me for subscribing to BP premium, but with nothing at all in the body. I guess I'm 'in', but am waiting till March to be sure.

[RichG]

I got a response from Jeff Pease of BP this afternoon:

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Sorry for the delay with this. We've been spread pretty thin with getting the book out and setting up premium.

Believe it or not, we are on track for going live on March 1. We've been scurrying around trying to get all of the necessary tools completed in time, but everything is just about set up now.

You should be receiving an e-mail in the next couple of days inviting you log in and modify your user profile, and then another shortly thereafter explaining how the new site works

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I hope they don't have too many hiccups at the beginning, especially since their expected start date isn't too far off.

[RichG]

Originally posted by Skip
I'm definitely still not getting Sheehan's emails like gyb13 said he was.


I've recently gotten Sheehan newsletters on the 21st and 24th.

I just checked his archives and I think everything's posted through the February 21 one.

This was only the second time I checked the archives and this time it didn't ask me for a user name and password. I guess they either took off the protection or had previously written a cookie to my machine that first time. I'd guess the former.

[Craig S.]

Originally posted by Skip
Also this a.m. (1:43 a.m. in fact) I got an email with a subject line thanking me for subscribing to BP premium, but with nothing at all in the body. I guess I'm 'in', but am waiting till March to be sure.

Same goes for me. I tried to access the archives, but I was denied without a proper user name/password.

I'm trying to cut them as much slack as possible, as I realize they're all busy. If it's all up and working on March 1, I'll be happy.

[cubfan33]

Email Joe. He's put it at the end of a couple columns, so check to see if you have it.

Thanks to everyone for patience ... I think you'll be very pleased when things launch!

[Craig S.]

Originally posted by cubfan33
Email Joe. He's put it at the end of a couple columns, so check to see if you have it.

Thanks to everyone for patience ... I think you'll be very pleased when things launch!

I e-mailed someone last night about it, and received a response very quickly. I was impressed.

[Skip]

Got another welcome message in the wee hours this a.m. explaining how all works. For those who have wondered about the premium page, it appears that there may not be one ... the premium content is reached via direct links off of a daily newsletter on weekdays. I hope there's a main page too, just to make it easier to browse and to keep up with archived stuff.

Also for those who questioned the length of the subscription, it goes through Feb 29, 2004 so your $40 is for a full year, not just 10 months.

First newsletter should be 3/3/03 - in honor of the Babe, I'm sure.

[Skip]

Guess I am indeed in. Got the email today. Cant comment on the content since its mostly just intro 'we hope you like it' stuff.

However, I do hope we get a way to access days/weeks/months of old stuff. The only access I see is off of the email and I will absolutely not save a myriad of daily emails as my only means of getting at content. Accessing what seems to be the home site ( http://premium.baseballprospectus.com ) just gets you to the subscribe page. If the site has no easy access to old content or any sort of central organization (i.e. if it is only accessible off of the links from a daily email) I will be greatly disappointed - just because it's not hard to do it the other way, and still preserve security while still facilitating access.

[daredevil456]

lmao

[Skip]

why lmao dd?

[cubfan33]

Don't worry - they'll go in the Archive like every other article - you'll just need your password. You'll also see them on the front page with clear designators marking them as PREMIUM.

[Skip]

Originally posted by cubfan33
You'll also see them on the front page with clear designators marking them as PREMIUM. Got it. Sort of an obvious way of doing it now that my brain is back from what must have been a Count Chocula induced interval of yabba-yabba-yabba.

[nyy26wc]

Originally posted by cubfan33
I still can't believe Lee can do all that work in thirty hours!

I'd like to agree with Will and I've got amend my answer to how long my workweeks are. I have no idea how I originally came up with a figure that low, especially after I just wrote up a what's a typical day answer for an interview I'm doing with Steve. (Hope that wasn't supposed to be a secret. I haven't seen the interview mentioned anywhere here, but I don't think that was because it was supposed to be a state secret.)

[RetMan]

I can throw money away with the best of them. I have been singing the praises of "Baseball Prospectus Premium" since it has started. The content is outstanding. Worth every penny. I have my reservations they will keep up the outstanding work all year long, as there will be some dull days. I am a happy customer now though, and the season hasn't even started.

Money I have spent:

Sickels newsletter
Sheehan newsletter
Baseball Prospectus Premium
Baseball HQ

...... and I complain about my wife's spending!

[cubfan33]

Is My kind of guy :)


Wait ... didn't you buy Sickels book? or BP 2K3??

Just kidding.

[RetMan]

Wait ... didn't you buy Sickels book? or BP 2K3??


Don't get me started on the books I have bought too.

Sickels
BP 2003
All 3 Sporting News books. ( Last year for the scouting book!)
Forecaster

I do miss the STATS books though, as they came out earlier, and were easier to read.

[Craig S.]

I'm happy with the Premium content so far. I like being able to count on it showing up every afternoon - I take a break to read it as soon as it's there. It's definitely surpassed ESPN Insider on my "paid subscription" list.

[daredevil456]

is there any way to get the Sheehan newsletter seperate without having to subscribe to BP Premium??

[RetMan]

Originally posted by daredevil456
is there any way to get the Sheehan newsletter seperate without having to subscribe to BP Premium??

I believe Sheehan writes exclusively for BP, and that is the only way to get it.

[Skip]

Originally posted by RetMan
I believe Sheehan writes exclusively for BP, and that is the only way to get it. I'm pretty sure that's true too.

[nyyfanfrombirth]

Originally posted by Craig S.
I'm happy with the Premium content so far. I like being able to count on it showing up every afternoon - I take a break to read it as soon as it's there. It's definitely surpassed ESPN Insider on my "paid subscription" list.

Ditto. ESPN Insider needs 3 more Jim Bakers to be able to compete.

[cubfan33]

Jim Baker rules, but ...

Sheehan's ours and ours alone again and why the HECK would you not want my column? ;)

[LibraryLoser]

Just checking on something... The Basball Prospectus Preium page claims that they are supposed to send a daily premium email with links to the new articles. I know they are listed on the prospectus home page, but I haven't received an email since the service went live at the beginning of the month. Is it just my email or has this method changed?

[Skip]

I still get an email. Are you able to log on via the links on the BP home page?

[LibraryLoser]

Yes, I have no problems logging on and reading the articles. I just don't receive emails. I guess I'll have to contact them, but wanted to check before emailing.

[cubfan33]

Hey Loser!

(Well, it's his name ... nothing personal!)

You can go to http://premium.baseballprospectus.com/manageprofile.php?username=YOURNAME

where YOURNAME is your BP username. There's an option to get the mail or not get the mail. Somehow, yours got set to no mail. It could be that your email provider has a filter that thought the Premium email was a spam. If so, you may need to contact them to see if you can re-set those filters. Hope this helps.

[LibraryLoser]

Thanks. I've re-checked it to get the emails. Let's see what happens. It turns out my silly ISP installed a SPAM program and automatically set everyone as on, instead of letting us choose. If I still don't get the emails, I'll change to a different email address.

Thanks all.

The name is actually my fantasy league team name...

[Skip]

Originally posted by LibraryLoser
The name is actually my fantasy league team name... Gee ... and I just thought you had really really mean parents.

[sweaver]

BP occasionally has "premium" content that even us non-subscribers can reach, either because of an oversight, or a reminder of the quality of the content. Right now, Friday's UTK is available at http://premium.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=1974 without subscription.

[Wolf Hopper]

Will really does a great job. That's info you cannot get anywhere else.

[Craig S.]

Originally posted by Wolf Hopper
Will really does a great job. That's info you cannot get anywhere else.

His writing style has improved a lot. And he more than held his own with Mazzone and House on OTL.

[Wolf Hopper]

Originally posted by Craig S.
And he more than held his own with Mazzone and House on OTL.

I told him that, if he wants to be taken seriously, he needs to spit more often while on the air, like Leo. :D

[sweaver]

He was actually on the show? I missed it, they kept postponing him....

[Wolf Hopper]

Originally posted by sweaver
He was actually on the show? I missed it, they kept postponing him....

I saw it Sunay AM - it was an OTL on Pitch Counts.

[Skip]

I saw the first half ... Will seemed to be struggling to get a word in edgewise against (or for that matter, for) House and "Rocker".

[cubfan33]

Thanks for the compliments on writing (amazing what having an editor will do) and on my OTL appearance. I'm working on the spitting thing, but I keep hitting my tie and the people in the studio are really ticked ...

For those that AREN'T Premium yet, take a look at our free stuff. There's still a lot of great content, including our new team reviews (three a day - "Triple Play"), free columns, new stat reports that update daily, and the occasional appearance from behind the wall of myself or Joe or Nate Silver.

Not to sound like an ad, but in May, Sports Illustrated had 75 articles in their magazines. BP Premium had over 100, all on baseball and none by Rick Reilly, but no pretty pictures.

[gyb13]

Will - is there a way to find articles which are not recent enough to be on the front page and not old enough to be in the searchable archives?

[nyyfanfrombirth]

Is anybody else having difficulty accessing the articles today? I keep getting this message when I click on any of the links:

Warning: Can't connect to local MySQL server through socket '/tmp/mysql.sock' (146) in /export/home/www/jeffco/common/db.php on line 18

[pathogan]

Originally posted by nyyfanfrombirth
Is anybody else having difficulty accessing the articles today? I keep getting this message when I click on any of the links:

Warning: Can't connect to local MySQL server through socket '/tmp/mysql.sock' (146) in /export/home/www/jeffco/common/db.php on line 18

it took along time to load,but I got through

[nyyfanfrombirth]

Later on in the afternoon, everything was working. Phew! I get antzy if I can't get my BP. It's such a nice break during the workday.

[Skip]

Ok - it's been a year on BP Premium. Who plans on subscribing to BP Premium this year. Anybody who did last year that won't this year (and why)? Anybody who didn't last year but will this year (and why)? Just curious.

I am actually on the fence about resubscribing. I enjoyed the service last year and felt it was worth the money, but I there are other things I might try as an 'instead' this year with my limited play money. Color me undecided.

[KCBOOMER]

I, also, subscribed last year and am leaning toward renewing but also have my issues. About half the staff there have axes to grind. I really enjoy BP's analysis of the game but a bunch of those guys need to get a grip. The owner's aren't always lying or wrong, Selig isn't always lying wrong, the Union is not a higher life form, and the players do not have a god-given right to perpetual salary increases. Don't get me wront here, on the first two that's the way you have to bet, but it doesn't mean always.

I also wasn't too amused at all the flak I took when I challenged the accuracy of their report on Pete Rose coming back being a done deal. Now when it is clear there report was pre-mature, at best, no one is saying a thing.

[gyb13]

i'm not re-upping. mostly because i found that i didn't have enough time to read everything and that's not gonna change this year.

[LisaG]

well, the only writers there i like are jonah keri, derek zumsteg and joe sheehan. the rest, as kc sez, are full of themselves, one-sided or flat out boring. so i don't know about another 40 bucks. i am also amused that the bp so called done deal re pete rose has not gotten any press (about how they wuz rongg) in our sabermetric community.

[Joseph]

I'll be re-upping, although I really think the site could use a better layout. Sortable stats would be nice as well, it would be great if they added some normal stats as well like ab, runs, hits, 2b's RC etc etc.

[Domeboys]

I am not a member, but read a recent interview with Joe Sheehan that some of you may be interested in. (Sorry if this is a duplication, but I chose not to read through nine screens of posts...)

http://www.baseballbeat.blogspot.com/2004_01_04_baseballbeat_archive.html#1073712687730 10921

[cubfan33]

well, the only writers there i like are jonah keri, derek zumsteg and joe sheehan. the rest, as kc sez, are full of themselves, one-sided or flat out boring. so i don't know about another 40 bucks. i am also amused that the bp so called done deal re pete rose has not gotten any press (about how they wuz rongg) in our sabermetric community.

All of the rest? ;)

And wrong? Wait until you see Pete's interview in Men's Health next month.

[KCBOOMER]

And wrong? Wait until you see Pete's interview in Men's Health next month.


Yeah, we'll believe that.

[Craig S.]

I'll be re-upping. I don't think their writers are any more "full of themselves" than many of those who post here. Most baseball writers are somewhat arrogant, so I don't see how that would be much of an issue.

I haven't been keeping up with my BP reading lately, but it's definitely worth the cost. There are a lot of good baseball writers out there, but very few who take the approach they take at BP. I'll admit that there aren't any Ring Lardners in the bunch, but they're usually interesting and provide plenty of good statistical analysis.

[Elmo]

All of the rest? ;)

And wrong? Wait until you see Pete's interview in Men's Health next month.


Men's Health is another Rodale publication as I recall.

[Wolf Hopper]

Men's Health is another Rodale publication as I recall.

100% correct - but, let's try and stay on the topic of BP and not PR in ths thread. Thanks.

[ronh]

I subscribed last year, but no way am I resubscribing.

Most of the writers think they know it all, but the truth is they know little.

The preseason predictions by Joe Sheehan show how little he knows. Last year he predicted the Reds in first and the Astros in 5th, behind the Pirates. He also said Bob Boone would be NL manager of the year! He also said the Tigers would end up 3rd.
http://premium.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=1739

And Will, sorry, but the Reds in 1st, Pirates in 3rd, Cards in 4th, and the Astros 5th?

I'm supposed to trust what they write (and pay them for it) when this is what they come up with? Joe Shmo, off of most forums could have done a better job.

I agree with what KCBOOMER said about their opinions. They're going to have to give me something worthwhile, that I can't get anywhere else, without the attitude, before I'll pay again.

ronh

[clemente21]

I wasn't going to subscribe last year until I met Rany and Will at the Chicago Pizza field. I miss Rany's contributions - it was clear last year that he wouldn't be doing much until at least August, but even then he did not have a lot of contributions.

I'll probably subscribe again this year, but a few things will have to improve to keep me as a repeat customer for 2005:

- The Transaction Analysis has to stick to a weekly schedule
- Derek has to calm down a little bit
- They need to show that they are developing another good daily columnist a la Joe and Will.

[pathogan]

...franlky, too much sabermetrics{I know I know, but this is art,not science,and too many numbers bore the hell out of me] I love,simply love Sheehans columns,I'd re-up for that alone[like Bakers on espsn].I agree with soemone else,I am ambivalent presently.I LIKE their opinions,and people guessed wrong, which is more proof that this is not rocket science...

[Elmo]

...franlky, too much sabermetrics{I know I know, but this is art,not science,and too many numbers bore the hell out of me] I love,simply love Sheehans columns,I'd re-up for that alone[like Bakers on espsn].I agree with soemone else,I am ambivalent presently.I LIKE their opinions,and people guessed wrong, which is more proof that this is not rocket science...

I paid for Joe's little Email newletter during his hiatus from BP - if anyone recalls that. I do like his stuff, and he's pretty frank about those kind of predictions by the way, they're not his deal and he only does them out of obligation as I recall.

I think one of the reasons that many people are turned off by the 'stathead' business is sort of summed up in Nat Silver's piece of 16 Jan. from BP discussing the accuracy of their PECOTA system's ability to prediuct results - http://premium.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=2515

"My evasive answers to these questions must surely have seemed like a transparent bit of spin doctoring. One of my readers suggested to me, quite seriously, that I had a future in PR or politics. But I was convinced--and remain convinced--that a forecasting system should not be judged by its results alone. The method, too, is important, and PECOTA's methodology is sound."

i.e. we believe our metric is sound, and whether it correlates with reality is only equally (if that) important. The column they threw up there when they started posting DE (the percentage of balls in play turned into outs) statistics blythely threw out that the 'best' defensive teams as shown at that moment (or amongst the most) were the Yankees of Giambi, Soriano, Jeter, ventura, Posada (in the year where both shoulders needed surgery), Bernie, etc. and also the Mets who were ghastly.

A lot of people, myself included, are willing to accept counterintuitive metric to a point. But after that point, I'd like some better explanation of the above results. Eventually a stat/metric becomes so far removed from the 'results' that it is very hard to accept its validity, even if one has learned the basics behind how to read it, what is a good/bad measurement and what is a standard deviation for it, etc.

BP sometimes seems to communicate the attitude that we should just ignore that man behind the curtain and that writer x, y, or z said so, so you shouldn't worry your little head.

So I will not be subscribing although there are several writers there that I enjoy (and miss). I guess some people take the attitude that if there are enough aco0rns around the tree, then go ahead. But I generally tend also to vote with my $$$ and I just am not interested in that kind of analysis - although there are all kinds of their stats that I do like (VORP and its derivatives are one example).

[Cris E]

I miss Rany's contributions - it was clear last year that he wouldn't be doing much until at least August, but even then he did not have a lot of contributions.

I'll probably subscribe again this year, but a few things will have to improve to keep me as a repeat customer for 2005:

- The Transaction Analysis has to stick to a weekly schedule
- Derek has to calm down a little bit
- They need to show that they are developing another good daily columnist a la Joe and Will.


This sums up my feelings pretty well. Transactions and Sheehan are what I pay for. Guys like Gary H, Rany, Pappas and Nate Silver are very good but don't write enough. Will C has matured on my dime and Derek has not, but I consider them both worth checking out even if they aren't as consistant as the other guys yet.

At any rate, I'll likely re-up. I still have my job, so what the heck...

Cris E

[pathogan]

...paid for Sheehans e-mail,and it was worth it, he did an excellent job...

[balla45]

I subscribed to last year's but found some of the material as if they thought they were commish of MLB. A few of their predictions were way off based and I'm really un-decided if I want to spend money on something like this.

[cubfan33]

Heck, just making fun of my consistently bad predictions is worth a couple bucks :)

[jzmet]

If you play Roto and have your team/league managed online(e.g. my leagues are managed by CBS Sportsline), you have access to all of their content and stats. Also, between Lee's updates and Rotoworld, I've just about got my needs covered. Further, as some of you have already mentioned, a large portion of their content is very heavy on the stats and not very exciting to me.

[Elmo]

If you play Roto and have your team/league managed online(e.g. my leagues are managed by CBS Sportsline), you have access to all of their content and stats. Also, between Lee's updates and Rotoworld, I've just about got my needs covered. Further, as some of you have already mentioned, a large portion of their content is very heavy on the stats and not very exciting to me.

There are things I like about CBS Sportsline....well one thing and that's the live scoreboards (although to be truthful I like that better for football than baseball)....almost everything else stats-wise on there is available free elsewhere, I don't see the need to pay for their services - particularly given a lot of the complaints about them.

A place like BP really does provide information that you can't find elsewhere - the transaction analysis and Wil's UTK are about the best of their kind. I also find the book to be invaluable (although I'm still working off 2003).

Between those and joe, gary, derek, doug, even a non-stat-head can find plenty to justify the price (heck, I know people that spend 100's on webpages that only provide non-original public domain stuff that isn't even organized well or in a timely fashion....at least the ESPN Insider stuff 'collects' media articles for you) - next to that BP is very cheap indeed.

[cubfan33]

Ummm ... all our stats are free. No need to give those up. About all we lack there is a better design (working on it) and sortable (we wish).

[Skip]

Heck, just making fun of my consistently bad predictions is worth a couple bucks :)Yep - Will's 'performance' saved my bacon in the NDF Predictions contest last season! ;)

[ExposFan2004]

I'm leaning towards not renewing my BP subscription. When a site is free, you can live with irregular schedules and uneven content. But when I'm forking over my hard-earned cash, I expect something of quality and value in return. And BP online fell way short of my expectations, especially at $40 a year. the promised "regulal" features weren't - they were sporadic at best. And a lot of the articles had the feel of a "just submitted in time for the deadline so no time to bother editing or fact checking". All in all, it felt very amateurish to me. Which is fine if you're not charging for it - but if you want people to pay, you've got to be more polished, more consistent, more reliable. IMHO.

The lack of accountability at BP is also bugging me more and more. We see lots of projections, lots of predictions, lots of statements that eventually end up wrong and are just brushed under the carpet. But the instant one of the WAGs do end up coming true, it's trumpeted all over the place as proof of their genius (and Will, you're one of the ones who is extremely guilty of this). So you made some predictions that ended up coming true. Great. But what about all the ones that were wrong? If you make 100 predictions and 1 comes true, it's intellectually dishonest to focus on the 1 correct one and ignore the rest.

I'd like to see more Sheehan, more Keri, more Jazayerli, more Huckaby. More Transaction Analysis, but someone seriously needs to edit Kahrl. Better quality control on the PTPs. Don't care for Zumsteg at all, and wouldn't mind seeing him dropped from the roster altogether. And I hope to god the book is better this year - the 2003 edition of BP should be considered an embarrassment by all involved.

Just my 2 cents.

[cubfan33]

And worth every penny.

[satchel]

Come on folks, no need to get personal.

[ExposFan2004]

Sorry, wasn't trying to get personal. I was just trying to provide some constructive criticism of what I saw as BPs flaws in the first year of pay-to-view. Actually, I'm quite surprised that they haven't sent out a request for comments to the people who did pay for the first year. If they truly want to succeed and grow, the best way is to ask the subscribers what they thought, not simply assume that they know what changes need to be made. It doesn't really matter what changes the BP guys think need to be made - what the customers think is much more relevant.

[gyb13]

good point

[pathogan]

good point
...I agree

[sweaver]

We're making Will a little defensive here, but I think the criticisms offered are fair. If it's enough to drive away some paying customers, BP needs to pay attention. They will know more as the season starts and memberships need to be renewed, if numbers are up or down.

[Skip]

I've decided not to renew. I'm spending my limited play money on ESPN Insider this year to see how I like their global sports coverage v. BP's baseball specific coverage. No criticism of the authors at BP, some of whom I'll really miss, is intended by this decision - it's more of a bang for the buck decision because of the number of other sports I also like to follow.

[SmedIndy]

Are the Triple Play's Premium now too? Dang!

[cubfan33]

Triple Plays are free.

We do extensive market research, including internal polls. We do it scientifically based on our demographics. As you can imagine, comments in public places tend to be on either extreme.

Since our renewals are through the roof even before showing off some killer new features and new writers, we're not tremendously concerned that too many are turned off.

ESPN Insider? Well, we'll welcome you back when you're ready, Skip.

[SmedIndy]

Will - the TPs this winter have had the Premium tag on them.

[gyb13]

u sure you're not confusing PTP with sheehan's Prospectus Today?

[Craig S.]

ESPN Insider? Well, we'll welcome you back when you're ready, Skip.

If you want coverage of more than just baseball, Insider is the way to go. I'm reupping on my BP subscription, but it's obviously limited in its coverage.

And as much as I enjoy some of the BP writers, I'd still consider Jim Baker on Insider as the Web's best baseball writer.

[sweaver]

Will - the TPs this winter have had the Premium tag on them.
The webpage title says "Premium," but access to the page is still free. That is a confusing thing at BP.

[cubfan33]

Smed - I think Gyb is right. Sheehan is (P), PTP is not (and never will be.)

Craig - Dead on. Jim's not only a great writer, but a great guy. I only wish ESPN would give him a chance to shine. Instead, they're burying him with more SOS writing like Crasnick, Gomez, Olney, etc. ESPN's shifting some of their resources to INsider and I've heard rumors that more and more of their content - guys like Gammons, Pasquarelli, Aldridge - will be behind that wall. Disney's tired of losing $$$ on ESPN.com.

[thermos]

Actually, I'm quite surprised that they haven't sent out a request for comments to the people who did pay for the first year. If they truly want to succeed and grow, the best way is to ask the subscribers what they thought, not simply assume that they know what changes need to be made. It doesn't really matter what changes the BP guys think need to be made - what the customers think is much more relevant.

I was sent an e-mail (from Gary, if I recall) regarding some customer feedback they were soliciting. My guess is they decided to have more in-depth feedback from a more limited pool of subscribers, rather than seek feedback of a limited format or scope from all subscribers.

Anyway, people subscribe to these things for different reasons. Someone mentioned canceling and keeping ESPN Insider. I made just the opposite decision last year. All depends on what you're trying to get out of these services. To me, Sheehan's writing and Will's column (to which no real alternative exists that I know of) merit the subsription alone. Add in Goldman's new column, which I'm really excited about given the outstanding quality of his writing on the Yanks, and its a no-brainer to me. For all the reputation BP has as a stathead site, that's 3 columns with little or no heavy stat/pocket protector content. Whatever of the rest of it I find of value is gravy, and I've found a lot of it interesting even if much of it is, admittedly, beyond my Statistics 101 knowledge.

[joneseyjones]

Speaking of Statistics 101, I'd highly recommend checking out this series of articles at BP, which takes readers through the basics of what the Web site is all about, and what some of the more complicated stats in general out there are about:

http://premium.baseballprospectus.com/archive.php?mode=action&column=31

[gyb13]

by the way, welcome to the forum, joneseyjones. head on over to the icebreakers forum when you have a chance and tell us more about yourself...

[Endymion]

I ended up signing up again for another year.

I just wish they would update the content for the new year. Where are the 2004 PECOTA projections (I know they have released midpoints). Where are the player comments from the books, etc. I seem to remember them having the PECOTA projections up before I got my copy of the book.

[Joseph]

I ended up signing up again for another year.

I just wish they would update the content for the new year. Where are the 2004 PECOTA projections (I know they have released midpoints). Where are the player comments from the books, etc. I seem to remember them having the PECOTA projections up before I got my copy of the book.

The Pecota midpoints are up, and supposifly dowloadable. I can't get the dowload to work, and have yet to have my emails answered about why.

[Endymion]

Yeah, the Midpoints have been there for a while.

I was able to get the file to download with no problems. What kind of error are you seeing? Maybe I can help.

[bagger015]

I signed up for the first time and so far the content has been worth it. At least for me. Have not been into the numbers part of the game before but I am willing to learn new things. So far so good. I'll give it a year and see how it goes.........:)

[Endymion]

I ended up signing up again for another year.

I just wish they would update the content for the new year. Where are the 2004 PECOTA projections (I know they have released midpoints). Where are the player comments from the books, etc. I seem to remember them having the PECOTA projections up before I got my copy of the book.


What do you know!!

The 2004 PECOTA projections just got posted on BP today

[cubfan33]

I hope everyone sees this so deep in a thread, but for those of you who haven't tried BP -- and I don't mean to sound like a commercial or a shill -- but there's a new flavor for everyone to try.

http://premium.baseballprospectus.com/

Yes, we're debuting Fantasy.BP, a product designed to give you exactly what you need to win your fantasy league. The best projections available, plus team tracker software to keep your eye on your team. It's a lower price point than Premium and if Fantasy's your thing, this is something to check out.

Nothing else is changing - Premium stuff stays Premium (and yes, Premium subscribers get Fantasy numbers and TeamTracker at no additional cost) and Basic stuff stays Basic (ie, free.)

Ok, one other thing is changing - you might notice our snazzy new logo! It's the first sign of our impending site redesign. We really are listening to our customers and trying to make BP the best commercial site in baseball.

(Oh, and the book is shipping, all 600+ pages.)

[Joseph]

I finally re-upped, and with a new design coming, and fantasy.BP, I'm glad I did.

I also like how content is now being updated on the weekends. :thumb:

[rcartman28]

I don't know if I'll check out the Fantasy stuff because I really don't have time to be involved in a fantasy league, but I did re-up my subscription for another two years.