The Legendary "Smile" Album

[SmedIndy]

OK - I recently purchased on Ebay a German "collectors item" CD of outtakes, mixes, and otherwise leftovers from the infamous "Smile" album by the Beach Boys.

This record was to be the follow up to "Pet Sounds" - its centerpiece on side one was to be "Heroes and Villians" and "Good Vibrations" was to anchor side two along with the elements suites and "Surf's Up."

It's a long story - but basically Brian Wilson went daffy - all of the mixes were unused, and the Smiley Smile album was thrown togehter hap-hazardly.

Combining that with stuff from the box set, I am trying to put together how the album would have sounded if Brian Wilson was able to complete it.

I'm getting bogged down in the first side, though.

Is there someone out there that could help shed light?

[Max Power]

Originally posted by SmedIndy
Is there someone out there that could help shed light?

Too bad Dennis Lamp isn't around any more..........

[Skip]

I bet it starts making more sense by the second bottle of merlot, Smed. Otherwise, no help here ... heck, I just figured out Pet Sounds, remember.

[pwdennis]

I loved the Beach Boys records but always felt that they were overrated as to the depth of their music. I liked PET SOUNDS but would never place it among the great masterpieces of rock music. The remnants of SMILE that I have heard really were not earth shaking either - just some good music and some odd pieces. The Beach Boys were at their best when making music that was fun music.

[Ytown Tribe fan]

Yeah, "Smiley Smile" is what's left after the studio regrouped to salvage the "Smile" project.

In retropect, it was probably a mistake to bring in Van Dyke Parks. The Boys were already a commercial success and they brought in Parks to try and go over the top (Wilson was obsessed with beating The Beatles in popularity, which is like Jason Giambi being obsessed with beating Barry Bonds in batting).

"Smile" was the album that was going to put the Boys over the top except for three small problems:

1) They hated Van Dyke Parks. Probably, the studio brought him in to write "better" hits for them and told the group to live with it.

2) The Beatles released "Sgt Pepper" and Wilson took it as a personal assault on the Boys. Why couldn't they just get along like Sosa and Big Mac?

3) Wilson went nuts -- actually, nutsier; Syd Barrett nuts, but without the acid.

It's a tough album to listen to (hell -- it's a tough album to FIND, the original "Smile"). It's a good collector's item, but this is one of those cases where it's better NOT to release the album. That said, Wilson came through better than Syd Barrett has in the end.

[SmedIndy]

Pet Sounds is the greatest album ever, IMHO.

However - I have put together a decent running order of Smile using the Beach Boys box, some bootlegs and resource material. And Smile stacks right up there with Pet Sounds. AND - PW - It's FUN music!

YT - It wasn't a personal assault by the Beatles at all. Smile was being recorded at the same time as Pepper. Brian Wilson and the Beatles were friends. The Beatles played Pet Sounds all the time to hipsters in London. Paul McCartney visited the studio in LA when Vege-tables was being recorded. It was quite friendly. They got along well. Read Dominic Priore's "Look, Listen, Vibrate, Smile!" for good info on this.

The MAIN holdup was a lawsuit by the Beach Boys vs. Capitol Records that held up the original release of Heroes and Villians as a single (the infamous two parter), coupled with Brian's freakout over The Fire suite in the Elements and his insecurity.

Forget all about Smiley Smile - none of the songs on there that were supposedly on Smile are similar except for Good Vibrations. Wonderful and Wind Chimes are so beautiful on the original Smile.

Van Dyke Parks was Brian's choice- Capitol had nothing to do with it. If you heard the lyrics to "Surf's Up" and "Cabinessence" it wasn't about hits at all. Blame Mike Love (you can blame everything on Mike Love, the lawsuit, Smiley Smile, everything...)

The only thing I am missing is Part 2 of Heroes and Villians, which was to be the originals B-side. The original A-side is on the box set. (The actual one released was a bastardized version).

[SmedIndy]

The running order I compiled:

1. Our Prayer (similar to the version on 20/20, but not quite).
2. Heroes and Villians (need part 2, but if I don't get it no biggy)
3. Barnyard (link track - bootlegged)
4. Do You Like Worms (on box set)
5. The Old Master Painter (bootlegged)
6. He Gives Speeches (melody of She's Goin' Bald on Smiley Smile)
7. Wonderful (on box set - absolutely stunning - much much better than Smiley Smile).
8. Child Is the Father to the Man (bootlegged - it's the closing tag of Surf's Up on that album - as a whole piece it's breathtaking)
9. Cabinessence (similar again to the 20/20 version)
10. Bicycle Rider (bootleg - ties side one together with Heroes and Villians)

11. Good Vibrations
12. Look (bootlegged - a link track)
13. Vegetables (box set - much better than Smiley Smile)
14. Holidays (bootlegged - another link track)
15. Wind Chimes (box set - again much better than Smiley Smile)
16. Mrs. O'Leary's Cow (bootlegged - the infamous fire piece of the elements)
17. Friday Night (bootlegged)
18. Cool Cool Water (bootlegged - though unedited - this also appears at the end of Sunflower and the Box Set, but the intro is missing on those and the Sunflower version has a tag not needed here)
19. I Love to Say Da Da (Box Set)
20. Surf's Up (bootlegged - backing track, plus Brian's solo performance. This was the one song never really completed - the Surf's up version is Carl singing over Brian and has the Child is Father to Man tag).
21. You're Welcome (bootleg - different version than from B-side)

This may not be right - but you put them in this order, with the links and the proper version and it's a stunning record. Not as good as Pet Sounds, but in my top 10 of all time. On a par with Revolver and London Calling.

[pwdennis]

I didn't say it was not fun music, although later, after they left Capitol for other labels they issued some pretty pretentious stuff

As to greatest album ever, well I guess that's why there are hundreds of flavors of ice cream . PET SOUNDS would be in my top 100 but not in my top 50

[poorme]

beach "boys" is a misnomer. there was a beach BOY - brian wilson. the rest of them were a bunch of no-talent bums. (ok, carl could sing pretty)

brian lost his mind in what, 1967? after that the Beach "boys" put out a bunch of feces. Brian Wilson wasn't even around for most of it. That's like me talking about the Chicago Bulls circa 1992 and you thinking about the 2002 Bulls.

I bet if you polled 20 of the pre-eminent rock critics as to what the greatest 10 rock albums of all time are, at least 15 of them would mention Pet Sounds.

But as you and I both know, there is no accounting for taste. You would also find Astral Weeks by Van Morrison on those lists. A great album, but I don't really see the fascination with it. I like strawberry, you like vanilla.

[pwdennis]

Originally posted by poorme
I bet if you polled 20 of the pre-eminent rock critics as to what the greatest 10 rock albums of all time are, at least 15 of them would mention Pet Sounds.

But as you and I both know, there is no accounting for taste. You would also find Astral Weeks by Van Morrison on those lists. A great album, but I don't really see the fascination with it. I like strawberry, you like vanilla.

maybe so, but I didn't specify "rock" albums - my all-time top 100 would have at most 20-25 rock albums, at least 20-25 jazz albums and goodly amounts of "classic pop", country, real R&B and other genres mixed in. And for sure it would include several albums from the best "fun music" artist ever, Antoine "Fats" Domino

[satchel]

Originally posted by SmedIndy
Pet Sounds is the greatest album ever, IMHO.


Count me among those who don't get it. I hear this statement from so many folks, like Smed, who listen to a lot of music and have a sophisticated ear and whose opinions you'd think I would respect. And yet, I just don't comprehend the fuss over Pet Sounds. Call me a philistine ... it's not that I think it's bad, I just don't think it's terribly special.

thus, as to your original question, Smed - how would the album have sounded if Brian Wilson had finished it? I don't know - maybe another "masterpiece" that you either think is great, or are utterly mystified by others' devotion to.

[Skip]

For you who dont get Pet Sounds, I'd like to know where you were months ago when Smed and I were having the same debate. I felt like Smeagol arguing with the Dark Lord. :D

For Smed I'll restate that listening to Pet Sounds during our debate and since has converted me; It is an extremely good album. It's not my all time #1 but it has helped get me over my generic disdain for the Beach Boys (at least for that album.) I'd like a copy of Smed's rebuilt Smile just to see.

[SmedIndy]

The fuss is that the music is breathtaking, the harmonies phenomenal, and the subject matter of Pet Sounds a mile away from fun and the sun. It's quite adult and thoughtful. Simply amazing.

Poorme - listening to Sunflower and Surf's Up - Carl and Dennis had pretty good moments as artists as well. Just not up to Brian's level. Those aforemented albums were really the last gasp of the Beach Boys. Sunflower, especially, is quite good.

I think I do have the final link to Smile. Smile, as it should have been assembled, is phenominal. IMHO, much better than Pepper (many Beatles fans like myself think Pepper is a middling Beatles record, Rubber Soul, Revolver, the White Album, Abbey Road, Hard Days Night and With the Beatles better to me) and really would have made a "statement" in 1967.

It's just not released legally, right now....but I read on the 'net that it may be one day.

[pwdennis]

Originally posted by SmedIndy
I think I do have the final link to Smile. Smile, as it should have been assembled, is phenomenal. IMHO, much better than Pepper (many Beatles fans like myself think Pepper is a middling Beatles record, Rubber Soul, Revolver, the White Album, Abbey Road, Hard Days Night and With the Beatles better to me) and really would have made a "statement" in 1967.



I have the Beach Boys box, it's great stuff, but I've not been enough of a diehard to chase down some of the stuff Smed references

I agree that Sgt Pepper is just a middlin' Beatles record. I wouldn't rate the White Album as being better - too much garbage - it could have been boiled down into a great single album. Revolver and Rubber Soul are my favorites although I like all the early stuff too

[satchel]

Originally posted by SmedIndy
The fuss is that the music is breathtaking, the harmonies phenomenal, and the subject matter of Pet Sounds a mile away from fun and the sun. It's quite adult and thoughtful. Simply amazing.


Oh, thanks for clearing that up. :rolleyes: Hope you aren't suggesting that those of use who don't appreciate it aren't "adult and thoughtful." I am sincerely happy that it moves you though. Fortunately there are other things that move me.

[SmedIndy]

No, Satch....you misinterpreted the comment, totally.

The thoughts and sentiments in "I Guess I Just Wasn't Made For These Times", "That's Not Me" and "I Know There's an Answer" are remarkably adult and serious, especially given the normal subject matters in mid-60's pop.

And "You Still Believe in Me" and "Caroline No" reduce me to tears on occassion.

This coming from someone who has every Husker Du record.

The problem now is that there's a lot of 'hype' associated with Pet Sounds - but it's always been my favorite since I inherited my sister's scratchy fake-stereo copy in the early 70's.

As for Smile - I have a "completed" copy and I again think that IF it was released early Spring in 1967 - then it MAY have made a significant impact. Many of the snippets are wordless vocal chants, avant garde pieces and insturmental links but it all works as a WHOLE, which the best albums do.

(PW - I disagree on the White Album - I couldn't cull but maybe 2 or 3 tracks total, because it all fits, but that's another debate ).

[jcjh20]

beach "boys" is a misnomer. there was a beach BOY - brian wilson. the rest of them were a bunch of no-talent bums. (ok, carl could sing pretty)

brian lost his mind in what, 1967? after that the Beach "boys" put out a bunch of feces. Brian Wilson wasn't even around for most of it. That's like me talking about the Chicago Bulls circa 1992 and you thinking about the 2002 Bulls.

I bet if you polled 20 of the pre-eminent rock critics as to what the greatest 10 rock albums of all time are, at least 15 of them would mention Pet Sounds.

But as you and I both know, there is no accounting for taste. You would also find Astral Weeks by Van Morrison on those lists. A great album, but I don't really see the fascination with it. I like strawberry, you like vanilla.

This is a bunch of BS. Brian was the mastermind behind the band, yes, but that doesn't mean the rest were just a bunch of no-talent disposable people. Hear the harmonys and vocals on the records? Brian didn't do all that. He did most of the work, as far as arranging and producing, but it's an absolutely ridiculous thing to say that they had no talent. Carl had a beautiful voice, Dennis could write music (sometimes just as good as Brian's), and as together as a group, they couldn't be beaten in the harmony dept. IMO. They also continued to release great albums after 1967, so just because Brian wasn't there doesn't mean they automatically started to suck.

And who gives a crap about polling albums? The Beach Boys are a great band, that's all that matters. It doesn't matter if Pet Sounds is the greatest album ever or anything, only thing that matters is if you enjoy the album. If you like bands better than the Beach Boys (or don't like em at all) that is fine, but i for one think it's ridiculous that everyone always has to compare the band with other bands and everyone puts them down just because they don't reach their standards given by a bunch of stupid music critics. Hype is what killed the band in the first place, so just listen to the music for what it is. Hype is irrelivent. If you like the band, you like them! They don't have to be the best band ever or anything...

[Crash Course]

jcjh20 - welcome to the NetShrine Discussion Forum.
Please be sure to read our Community Standards - they can be found at www.netshrine.com/ndfcs.html - before posting further. It's required to show respect for all opinions here. Thanks.