Pujols: How good?

[mainsr]

Sports Illustrated has a piece this week calling Albert Pujols' season the best ever by a rookie. In it, Tony LaRussa says that Pujols should be MVP. Now, LaRussa's qualifications as a moron when it comes to MVP voting were established in 1998, when he said that Sosa should've finished ahead of McGwire.

But is Pujols the best rookie ever? Here's how he ranks now:
OBP 9, SLG 7, OPS 8, RC 10, OW% 10, EqA 10, EqRAR 9. Awfully good, but note that Chipper Jones is ahead of him in every category excep SLG - Pujols isn't even MV3B!

As for the best of all time, here are several players with great rookie seasons, and their ranking in OBP-SLG-OPS (NA = Not in the top 10):
Pujos 9-7-8
Fred Lynn 5-1-1
Tony Oliva NA-3-5
Mark McGwire NA-1-3
Ted Williams 6-4-3
Joe Jackson 1-2-1

Pujols is one of the better stories of the season. He is nowhere near MVP nor all-time best rookie.

[NetShrine]

It could (?) be the best season for a player that skipped AA and AAA. But, it is not the best rookie year ever - and that's without even looking at my files.

[BuzzBuzzard]

What about the intangibles? Look what he meant to the Cards early on in the season. He carried them.

[NetShrine]

Originally posted by BuzzBuzzard
What about the intangibles? Look what he meant to the Cards early on in the season. He carried them.

So, he gets credit because the rest of his team sucked?

Then, Alvin Davis would have been the greatest rookie ever too?

[Throwback]

I'd say definitely the best Stl Rookie Year Ever, but Jackson and a few others were clearly better, regardless of what you think of comparative eras. I think he should be third in MVP voting behind Sosa (who should win his first legitimate MVP) and Bonds (who's average and RBIs aren't high enough to justify him over Sosa). By legitimate, I mean that McGwire was by far the better of the two choices in 1998, which even the media is starting to realize now.

[NetShrine]

T-back, long time no see. Good to hear from you!

On Bonds, look at the On Base Average - - forget his Batting Average. His BB totals also hurt his RBI totals. Most teams would rather walk him than let him hurt them.

[BuzzBuzzard]

Originally posted by NetShrine
So, he gets credit because the rest of his team sucked?
Damn straight. He almost singelhandedly kept them in the race early on.

[NetShrine]

Originally posted by BuzzBuzzard
Damn straight. He almost singelhandedly kept them in the race early on.

That should go towards MVP - not ROY.

[BuzzBuzzard]

Originally posted by NetShrine
That should go towards MVP - not ROY. You are 100% correct. I kept seeing ROY and hearing MVP in my mind. My bad. Thanks for the slap.

[NetShrine]

Originally posted by BuzzBuzzard
I kept seeing ROY and hearing MVP in my mind.

Told ya that Rap Music would fry your brain. Switch the Biggie Smalls tape for some Paul Simon or Sheryl Crow.

[mainsr]

Originally posted by Throwback
I'd say definitely the best Stl Rookie Year Ever, but Jackson and a few others were clearly better, regardless of what you think of comparative eras. I think he should be third in MVP voting behind Sosa (who should win his first legitimate MVP) and Bonds (who's average and RBIs aren't high enough to justify him over Sosa). By legitimate, I mean that McGwire was by far the better of the two choices in 1998, which even the media is starting to realize now.

Two responses:
1. Bonds is having a far, far, far better season than anyone in my lifetime (which goes back to the 1958). Allan Barra at the WSJ rates his season as the second best ever, just ahead of Williams in '41 but behind Ruth in '20. That's it. The two most important indicators of offensive ability are OBP and SLG, and Bonds is miles ahead of anyone. He's gotten on base half the times he's been up! BA is the single most meaningless offensive stat.

2. How do you rate Pujols ahead of Chipper Jones? Jones is ahead of Pujols on pretty much every important batting category and is much better with the leather. You seen the Braves offense? He's been carrying them all year.

Don't get me wrong - Pujols is, as I said, one of the best stories of the year. Let's not blow his accomplishments out of proportion.

[NetShrine]

Originally posted by mainsr
Bonds is having a far, far, far better season than anyone in my lifetime (which goes back to the 1958).

Don't you mean 1895? :jester:

[BuzzBuzzard]

Originally posted by mainsr
2. How do you rate Pujols ahead of Chipper Jones? Jones is ahead of Pujols on pretty much every important batting category and is much better with the leather. You seen the Braves offense? He's been carrying them all year.
I have not seen much of Pujols, but Chipper is no gold glove. Pujols is that bad defensively?

He's had a 'down' year, but Aaaaandrew Jones has still got some good offensive numbers. More RBI than Chipper, I believe, too. I don't think you can give Chipper full credit for the Bravos.

[mainsr]

Originally posted by BuzzBuzzard
I have not seen much of Pujols, but Chipper is no gold glove. Pujols is that bad defensively?

He's had a 'down' year, but Aaaaandrew Jones has still got some good offensive numbers. More RBI than Chipper, I believe, too. I don't think you can give Chipper full credit for the Bravos.

Second issue first - Chipper's OPS is 1.023. Then comes Jordan at .844, A. Jones at .820. On the Cards, Pujols' OPS is 1.022, followed by Edmonds at .935. Runs created: C Jones 138.9, A Jones 89.6; Pujols 134.7, Edmonds 108.2. Fine point, but Chipper has dominated the Braves more than Pujols has dominated the Cardinals. Ergo, he's carried them more. BTW, I don't think that "carrying a team" is really a relevant measure; Chipper's carried the Braves more than Pujols has carried the Cards solely because the Cards are a better team offensively.

Glove: From the STATS website -
Pujols @ 3B: .938 Fielding Pct, 3.21 Range Factor, .748 Zone Rating
(Note that he's played only 54 games at third. He's also played 41 at 1B, 39 in RF, 35 in LF)
Chipper @ 3B: .944 Fieldnig Pct., 2.15 Range Factor, .768 Zone Rating.

Now, I'd say this in Pujols' favor: Getting jerked around from position to position can't help his numbers. But that difference in zone rating (the best of these measures, IMO) is pretty big. Incidentally, the ML average for 3B is .761, so Jones is actually slightly above average. You're right, of course - neither of them are a Rolen.

[mainsr]

Originally posted by NetShrine


Don't you mean 1895? :jester:

Hey, at least I've still got my hair.

[BuzzBuzzard]

Originally posted by mainsr
Second issue first - Chipper's OPS is 1.023. Then comes Jordan at .844, A. Jones at .820. On the Cards, Pujols' OPS is 1.022, followed by Edmonds at .935. Runs created: C Jones 138.9, A Jones 89.6; Pujols 134.7, Edmonds 108.2. Fine point, but Chipper has dominated the Braves more than Pujols has dominated the Cardinals. Ergo, he's carried them more. BTW, I don't think that "carrying a team" is really a relevant measure; Chipper's carried the Braves more than Pujols has carried the Cards solely because the Cards are a better team offensively.
I was not trying to compare Pujols to Chipper. I was just trying to point out that I don't think you can say Chipper has carried the Braves on his shoulders alone.

[NetShrine]

Originally posted by mainsr
Hey, at least I've still got my hair.

Big deal - most of it is on your back and in your nose. Then again, so is mine. :(

[mainsr]

Originally posted by BuzzBuzzard
I was not trying to compare Pujols to Chipper. I was just trying to point out that I don't think you can say Chipper has carried the Braves on his shoulders alone.

Agreed. The Braves have Julio Franco, after all! Besides, you make a lot more sense than Net trying to divert attention from his scalp.

[NetShrine]

Originally posted by mainsr
Besides, you make a lot more sense than Net trying to divert attention from his scalp.

I'm rubber, you're glue....................