Looking For Help On The Next Ballot

[Max Power]

Here's who is in the NetShrine Gallery so far:
http://www.netshrine.com/directory.html
Note that 22 were just added today.

Here's who is on the current ballot:
http://www.netshrine.com/ballot.html

Who else should be in NetShrine?
Any recently retired that should be in?

Please try and give a "why he should be in" with everyone that you suggest - thanks.

[LeGrandOrange]

Ah yes, I get to do my thing once again...I love this job. :) Give me a little bit...
*prays that I don't run out of guys to advocate candidacy for*

[LeGrandOrange]

I do figure that it would be respectful to throw Darryl Kile's name into this. I can't think of a mini-description for him...

[Alan Smithee]

hmm lets see. . . Bix mackey, dick lundy, chris torriente, bud fowler, frank grant.


if they are allowed then Oh, espino, buzz arlett, tony freitas.


wait did I go nuts? william hulbert is not in ? william Hulbert? he's a lot more important than dante bichette.
hugh fullerton too. if your going to put in arch ward lord where;s hugh fullerton?

[VNV Nation]

I'll vouch for Freitas if you go for Harry Krause.

among the new candidates...
Start with the easy stuff and knock out Billy Sunday, Tom Brown, Dante Bichette, Everett Scott. Really I'd knock out Dunlap, too, but he's sort of a novelty. I'm a big fan of Devon White but he's hardly immortal.

The best guys are Walter Alston, Tim Raines, Dave Cone.

I'm a big fan of the Curveless Wonder and the Nashville Narcissist, they were big winners on my rookie BJCB team, and of course they were good hitters, too. I'm ok with the others. Pfeffer, I don't know if he was the modern-day Frank White or Frank Bolling, but OK.

[JamesI]

Raines needs to be in. Canseco too since you have different levels. He deserves to at least be a Supernal or Icon.
Cone should be in, not a Apical but in.

I was searching, and couldn't find Dave McNally in. I think he deserves to be in as an Icon. His numbers are very similiar to Cuellar, who is in.


Off topic question. Why is Cal Ripken in the Free Agency Era and Tony Gwynn the Long Ball era?

[Max Power]

Guys - - I'm looking for help on the next ballot - not feedback on the current one............

James - Dave McNally is not in - - - perhaps he should be on the next ballot?

On the Ripken/Gwynn thing - - - - guys go in the era in which they had the most full seasons - - or the era in which they did more "damage."

[JamesI]

Ok, since your looking for suggestions for the next ballot, I will suggest Dave McNally. 184 wins, 4 20 win seasons, only pitcher to hit a world series grand slam.

[Jim Rice]

Amos Otis - I was surprised to find that he wasn't already enshrined. Ranks 22rd among all center fielders according to the admittedly biased Bill James, but he's still well worthy of the honor compared to some of the other CFs who are already in. Compare him to Lloyd Waner, Willie McGee, and Dom DiMaggio who are all in:

Otis Waner McGee DiMaggio
RC 1108 1103 1004 954
RCAA 187 34 29 120
RCAP 136 -93 -32 20
OWP .578 .515 .508 .560
ISO .149 .077 .101 .121
SEC .286 .140 .190 .261
BPA .486 .427 .437 .479

If Devon White rates a spot on the latest ballot, then A.O. clearly deserves a slot on the next one.

[LeGrandOrange]

Here's my ballot...these are all guys I have not suggested before...

1. Roger Peckinpaugh
Spent a decade as a top fielding SS. Decent hitter. Managed briefly in 1914, at 23 was youngest manager ever.

2. Ginger Beaumont
Swift turn-of-the-century leadoff hitter. Led NL in hits 4 times. Was the first player to bat in a World Series game.

3. Luke Easter
Legendary Negro League and minor league slugger. Hit at least 25 HR's in 3 seasons as a regular in the majors. Among the few to homer over the wall in CF at the Polo Grounds.

4. Pepper Martin
Fiery and colorful 3B/OF who led NL in SB 3 times. Hit .418 in World Series play, among best in history.

5. Steve O'Neill (as contributor)
Top AL catcher who became successful manager. In 14 seasons, never finished a year with a losing record.

6. Paul Blair
Talkative, rangy CF. Won 8 career Gold Gloves. Decent hitter until beaning in 1970.

7. Garry Maddox
Speedy CF with exceptional range, won 8 Gold Gloves. Solid hitter.

8. Rico Carty
Powerful and popular Dominican slugger. Made all-star team as a write-in candidate in 1970.

Obviously, commissioner can do better write-ups, this is why he's the commissioner and I'm merely part of the player's assocation. :)

If you've got a problem with any of my selections, you know where you can stick them. *g*
Now I need to figure out who else I've suggested that still deserves to be in...

[Max Power]

Thanks to all - this is all great stuff - keep 'em coming! :thumb:

[Jim Rice]

Johnny Pesky, and not just because he was the same player as Cecil Travis, Johnny Temple, Billy Rogell and Glenn Beckert, who are all enshrined already. He also missed three prime years to WWII (as Travis did) and went on to spend another 40 years as a manager and coach. A classy ballplayer and man.

[JamesI]

Originally posted by LeGrandOrange
6. Paul Blair
Talkative, rangy CF. Won 8 career Gold Gloves. Decent hitter until beaning in 1970.


I'd endorse Blair. Could have been great, but his offensive skills deteriorated after that beaning.


Assuming no team is stupid enough to sign him again, how about Brady Anderson. Other than Bonds, he's the only player with a 50+ steals season and a 50+ homer season (although that was pure fluke). Was a pretty good defender too, until the end of his career.

[LeGrandOrange]

Since they're "popular" right now, I should give these guys my full endorsement:

1. Dusty Baker
Consistent power hitter for over a decade. Fairly quick and a good defender. Later managed.

2. Felipe Alou
Articulate Dominican with solid power. Hit well for average and led NL in hits twice. Later managed, spent 5 seasons managing his son.

I know both are active in the dugout, but if Torre is in as a player why not...

[Max Power]

How about the 4th Alou brother, Bob?

[LeGrandOrange]

I thought it was "Toot"...:)

[Fuzzy Bear]

Don Buford was the original Tim Raines as a leadoff hitter, although he didn't play as long. I didn't see his name in. If he came up in 1980 he would have had a longer and more significantly regarded career. He had HOF ability, but played in an era where OBP was not much recognized.

[JamesI]

Originally posted by Fuzzy Bear
Don Buford was the original Tim Raines as a leadoff hitter, although he didn't play as long. I didn't see his name in. If he came up in 1980 he would have had a longer and more significantly regarded career. He had HOF ability, but played in an era where OBP was not much recognized.

While Buford was a key component of the powerhouse O's teams of 69-71, his production plummeted in 72. So I don't think his career was cut short, he just declined as a player. Still a darn good leadoff guy who would have been better recognized playing now.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Originally posted by JamesI
While Buford was a key component of the powerhouse O's teams of 69-71, his production plummeted in 72. So I don't think his career was cut short, he just declined as a player. Still a darn good leadoff guy who would have been better recognized playing now.

I'm not sure if Buford declined as a player to the point where his production was so low as to extinguish his career. It's possible that Buford just had an off year in 1972

Buford still had the ability to draw a walk. Remember, it was 1972, and people saw a 35 year old .206 hitter, rather than a guy who could draw a ton of walks.

I think Buford went to Japan after 1972; does anyone know?

Today, a 35 year-old leadoff guy like Buford would get another shot to show he hadn't lost it, particularly if he still had the central skill of getting on base intact. Buford could still draw walks. The 1973 O's, however, had two young OF, Al Bumbry and Rich Coggins, that Weaver wanted to play. He was right about Bumbry (although Bumbry was something of a platoon player, not really a full-time regular, and mildly overrated), but dead wrong about Coggins.

No matter; Buford's my nominee!

[LeGrandOrange]

Yeah, Buford was indeed a Japanese Leaguer...they loved him in Japan actually.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Originally posted by LeGrandOrange
Yeah, Buford was indeed a Japanese Leaguer...they loved him in Japan actually.

How did he perform in Japan? Were his stats good enough to suggest that he may not have been done as a major leaguer?

[Alan Smithee]

Originally posted by Fuzzy Bear
How did he perform in Japan? Were his stats good enough to suggest that he may not have been done as a major leaguer?

buford played 4 years in japan and hit .270 with 65 homer in 490 games. I dont think we can read too much into that. it was a time when such stars and clarence jones, gail hopkins, gene martin, roger repoz and john sipin were lightng up iJPL pitching.

I think part of the move was that the O's had Baylor on the bench with Bumbry and Coggins in AAA. ( i know, Coggins? but peoople were very high on him in the early 70's) add that to Blair, Rettenmund, Crowley and Tommie Davis at DH and the O's thought they had a lot of resources. plus the O's had a big dropoff in 72 and one of the biggest declines was Buford's. so what do you have? team wins three straight divisions, then drops to third. what do they do? get rid of the older guys who are starting to slip.
Im not saying I agree with it but if we went in the waywayback machine to 1972 and wrote an " O's: if its broke fix it" article what would you guys be saying?

[Max Power]

Dick McAuliffe should be in, just realized.

[Max Power]

Mental note to self: Moe Berg.

And, Sam "Toothpick" Jones:

http://www.townonline.com/wellesley/news/local_regional/wt_newwtbaseball02272003.htm

[Bruce Markusen]

Let me be the latest to express support for putting the late Dave McNally on the ballot. He was one of the game's best left-handers of the late sixties and early seventies and someone who played an important role in helping players achieve free agency.

I'd also like to throw my hat in the ring for Rico Carty, who was a sensational hitter when healthy. His 1970 season was remarkable, but then he hurt his leg in winter ball, beginning a string of injuries. He later resurrected his career as a DH with the Indians and Blue Jays.

Also, here are three other names I'd like to see added to the ballot.

Sal Bando: "Captain Sal" was a rock-steady third baseman for the A's, an above-average fielder who hit with power and drew walks, and a player who was so respected for his smarts that he almost became the A's player-manager in 1974.


Tommy Davis: One of the game's most productive hitters in the early sixties, he might have had a Hall of Fame career if not for breaking his ankle in 1965. Still, he came back to be an effective DH and bench player for a number of seasons. I believe he still has the record for the highest batting average among pinch-hitters with at least 150 at-bats.


Ken Holtzman: A smooth left-hander with a good fastball and a terrific curve, Holtzman had a number of successful seasons with both the Cubs and the A's. He really emerged as a standout starter when Chicago traded him to Oakland, freeing him from a manager--Leo Durocher--who didn't like him. Holtzman was also a good postseason performer, both on the mound and at bat (for whatever it's worth). Holtzman wasn't particularly well-liked among teammates or the media, which perhaps made him underrated in his era.

[Max Power]

Good ones Bruce - thanks!

[LeGrandOrange]

Glad to see I'm not the only one with ideas. :)

[Jim Rice]

Not quite sure why, but these numbers represent the averages of seven players who are not in NetShrine (first group) and seven players who are (second group).

G H EBH RBI SB BA OBP SLG OPS OPS+ RC RCAA OWP
1744 1763 461 773 121 .279 .351 .391 .742 100 858 -1 0.500
1730 1770 415 719 161 .284 .344 .374 .718 97 797 -33 0.475

I'm not saying the bottom seven (Joe Dugan, Larry Gardner, Billy Goodman, Willie Kamm, Del Pratt, Cookie Rojas and Steve Sax) don't belong, but I think the top seven do too. They are:

Ossie Bluege
Lonny Frey
Dick McAullife (as already nominated by Max)
Marty McManus
Pete Runnels
Milt Stock
Gee Walker

[Max Power]

Awesome - thanks JR!

[Wolf Hopper]

Denny Lyons

[rc3000]

ICON from the Expansion Era :
Cesar Cedeno (a personal favorite my first bat was a black Cesar Cedeno model)
Hal McRae

Manny Sanguillen

ICON from the Free Agency Era :

Tony Pena


Expansion/Free Agency Era :
Dick Williams

[Soapy]

Originally posted by Max Power
Here's who is in the NetShrine Gallery so far:
http://www.netshrine.com/directory.html
Note that 22 were just added today.

Here's who is on the current ballot:
http://www.netshrine.com/ballot.html

Who else should be in NetShrine?
Any recently retired that should be in?

Please try and give a "why he should be in" with everyone that you suggest - thanks.

Might I suggest Gary Peters? He was an AL ROY and finished in the top ten for AL MVP three years. Oddly enough, he never finished in the top ten for the Cy Young.

Kevin

[Wolf Hopper]

Good suggestion. Thanks!