View Full Version : Stephen Ambrose is Dead
Baseball fans more than any others in sport, must recognize that anytime a true historian, and better yet one that brings history to the masses, is silenced it is time for mourning. This is too bad - there are few who care to look back nowadays - other than through rose colored glasses or through vindictive hindsight.
History just 'is'.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=514&e=5&cid=514&u=/ap/20021013/ap_on_re_us/obit_ambrose
pathogan
10-13-2002, 06:35 PM
...of history, though I didnt often agree with his viewpoint,he wrote well and cogently...
moose
10-13-2002, 06:40 PM
you forgot to footnote who actually wrote that article.
he popularized history, but at a price to his reputation.
He was flawed, and at the end unfairly criticized IMO, but he was (as pathogan said) a great popularizer of history. Perhaps the Carl Sagan (ughh) of history. And no, I don't know why I like Ambrose but ughh at Sagan, because I think the comparison is a pretty apt one.
pwdennis
10-13-2002, 10:16 PM
Originally posted by Skip
He was flawed, and at the end unfairly criticized IMO, but he was (as pathogan said) a great popularizer of history. Perhaps the Carl Sagan (ughh) of history. And no, I don't know why I like Ambrose but ughh at Sagan, because I think the comparison is a pretty apt one.
Everything he wrote is readable, and his three volume biography of Richard Nixon is one of the few honest biographies of RMN and probably the only one you need to read. Most of the rest are either hatchet jobs or fawning endeavors, the hatchet jobs outweighting the fawning bios by about 80 to 1
pathogan
10-14-2002, 12:02 PM
Originally posted by pwdennis
Everything he wrote is readable, and his three volume biography of Richard Nixon is one of the few honest biographies of RMN and probably the only one you need to read. Most of the rest are either hatchet jobs or fawning endeavors, the hatchet jobs outweighting the fawning bios by about 80 to 1
it is very very good...as balanced as one can get with Rn...i thought Ambrose was way too fawining with Ike,and actually his bio of Nixon was much much better...
KCBOOMER
10-14-2002, 02:18 PM
Ambrose was a superb historian and writer. He was also head of the WWII museum in New Orleans.
He was primarily a historian of WWII but wrote on numerous disparate subjects including the Lewis & Clark Expedition and the Transcontinental Railroad.
He will be missed.
pwdennis
10-14-2002, 06:18 PM
Originally posted by pathogan
it is very very good...as balanced as one can get with Rn...i thought Ambrose was way too fawining with Ike,and actually his bio of Nixon was much much better...
Funny thing about Ike - the more you know about him the better you like him. Ike was incredibly loyal to those who served him and this generated similar loyalty from his subordinates. When things went wrong, Ike stood up and said "I screwed up - it was my fault" When things went well it was "General Bradley did this, Monty did that , Patton did this , etc ".
More so than any post depression president, Ike seemed to generate admiration. There are fewer "kiss & tell books" on any level coming out of the Eisenhower years than for any president since Coolidge or Hoover save (possibly) Truman. There are more "Kiss & tells" about FDR and the man was severely paralyzed from mid-chest down. Even Kate Summersby went to her grave denying that she ever had an affair with Ike (I believe her denial).
Contrast that to the scandal rocked Clinton, Nixon or Kennedy years. I am still waiting for someone to come forward and write a book titled MY TURN To ____ CLINTON or INTERN 13 OF 31
Ambrose's treatment was not as balanced as his books on Nixon but fawning is not the term I'd use - I'd say it was a little overly respectful.
Other than David McCullough, I cannot think of a recent writer of history and biography who is as consistantly readable as was Stephen Ambrose
spitball
10-14-2002, 08:43 PM
Ike was the one that said in his farewell address,"Beware the military and industrial complex."
He was a better pres than he gets credit for. And prescient as well.
pathogan
10-15-2002, 10:37 AM
Originally posted by pwdennis
Funny thing about Ike - the more you know about him the better you like him. Ike was incredibly loyal to those who served him and this generated similar loyalty from his subordinates. When things went wrong, Ike stood up and said "I screwed up - it was my fault" When things went well it was "General Bradley did this, Monty did that , Patton did this , etc ".
More so than any post depression president, Ike seemed to generate admiration. There are fewer "kiss & tell books" on any level coming out of the Eisenhower years than for any president since Coolidge or Hoover save (possibly) Truman. There are more "Kiss & tells" about FDR and the man was severely paralyzed from mid-chest down. Even Kate Summersby went to her grave denying that she ever had an affair with Ike (I believe her denial).
Contrast that to the scandal rocked Clinton, Nixon or Kennedy years. I am still waiting for someone to come forward and write a book titled MY TURN To ____ CLINTON or INTERN 13 OF 31
Ambrose's treatment was not as balanced as his books on Nixon but fawning is not the term I'd use - I'd say it was a little overly respectful.
Other than David McCullough, I cannot think of a recent writer of history and biography who is as consistantly readable as was Stephen Ambrose
well, he trashed General Marshall beecause he had no stones to stand up to mccarthy, and never recanted that,which was very low. for a man of modest means,he was most comfortable around millionaires,which is sort of odd[though Reagan was the same, on a diffeerent level} Ike was easliy the last great president...but I cant believe you dont believ the KS deal...
pwdennis
10-15-2002, 01:43 PM
Originally posted by pathogan
for a man of modest means,he was most comfortable around millionaires,which is sort of odd[though Reagan was the same, on a diffeerent level} Ike was easliy the last great president...but I cant believe you dont believ the KS deal...
He had a group of brothers who also made a mark for themselves in the worlds of finance and education so even within his family he was dealing with people of accomplishment.
For whatever reason there was a personal animus of some sort between Eisenhower and Truman which also spilled over onto Marshall. It is forgotten now, but Truman was held in low esteem at the time he left office. While himself honest, there appeared to be a number of less than honest folks within his administration.
Most of the venom seemed to reside within Truman, for Ike, even though he never became friends with Truman, was thoroughly appalled and embarrassed at the dire financial circumstances that Truman found himself in after leaving the White House, and prodded the passage of a Presidential pension.
Ike himself didn't need the money and gave his the presidential pension to charity.
soxfan121
10-15-2002, 01:53 PM
Originally posted by pwdennis
Other than David McCullough, I cannot think of a recent writer of history and biography who is as consistantly readable as was Stephen Ambrose
Having never read Ambrose, I cannot comment on his work.
But if he is as good as McCullough, I probably should reconsider. The Truman biography was one of the finest I've ever read.
WiredTiger
10-15-2002, 04:57 PM
Ambrose is a personal favorite of mine. I was sorry to see him got caught up in the footnote scandal, deserving or not.
His Lewis and Clark book was an excellent read and anything he did on WWII or on Eisenhower is especially good.
It takes a very special talent to be able to present a complex subject in an interesting and accessible manner.
You know what's cool?
It's cool to be a member of a baseball discussion group and find that you can intelligently discuss things like the merits of Stephen Ambrose. Wow, and a big :thumb: to everyone posting here.
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