Lance Armstrong

[Gosfgiants]

Anybody have any thoughts on Armstrong? He has been dominating his sport for awhile now. 4 straight Tour de France's is no easy feat. Is he one of the best athletes in the world? Does he dope? Let's hear it.

[moose]

Originally posted by Gosfgiants
Anybody have any thoughts on Armstrong? He has been dominating his sport for awhile now. 4 straight Tour de France's is no easy feat. Is he one of the best athletes in the world? Does he dope? Let's hear it.
domination on the order of jordan, gretzky, tiger...

[JamesI]

Originally posted by moose

domination on the order of jordan, gretzky, tiger...

I'm not sure this is that dominant. 4 straight Tours is impressive, especially for someone who over came cancer, but it is not unprecedented. If he wins again next year, he's probably in that category.

[moose]

Originally posted by JamesI


I'm not sure this is that dominant. 4 straight Tours is impressive, especially for someone who over came cancer, but it is not unprecedented. If he wins again next year, he's probably in that category.
i was thinking not so much about 4 in a row, but about margin of victory...

[sweaver]

I think it's a sign of competitive imbalance. Cycling needs more revenue sharing....

Oh, sorry.

Lance went to high school in Morgantown, WV. I have wondered ever since he hit the big time if he was in one of my classes when I taught there, since we were there at the same time. Unfortunately, I did not retain any written records of that period, and my memory is faulty.

[soxfan121]

4 Tours is by no means unprecedented; nor is the margin of victory. Miguel Indurain used to wipe up the lot of 'em in the early 90's and the Tour has historically been dominated by one man for long stretches. It's not that.

Lance is an admired and lauded athete for two reasons: 1. He survived cancer and came back to make his largest impact in his particular sport after "beating" cancer; and, 2. Lance is exceptionally well-marketed. His appeal as an "American Hero" who has survived cancer is well communicated to the general public. His association with the US Postal Service has been very, very good to Lance and his popularity.

[pwdennis]

I have no trouble with acknowledging Lance Armstrong as one of the greatest athletes of our time. He is every bit of that , and the obstacles he has had to overcome are a testament to the force of will that he possesses

[Sal Maglie]

Lance Armstong is one of the alltime greats in the Tour de France, but he could hardly be considered in the same class as Eddy Merckx. Armstrong rides for one race for the most part, the Tour. Merckx rode to win year round and his palmares(list of victories/significant placings) is something Armstrong recognizes as an achievement that will never be duplicated. Like in most other sports, cycling has seen a specialization in regards to it's athletes. Some concentrate on the spring classics(Paris-Roubaix, Liege-Bastogne-Liege, etc) while others lean towards stage events like the TDF, Giro d'Italia, or the Vuelta a Espana, and other races. So while Armstrong does dominate one event, he doesn't dominate the entire sport of cycling.

Is he doping? Well first off cycling has the most stringent testing of any sport in the World. They were the first sport to come up with a test for EPO(allows increase of oxygen to red blood cells), and no other sport has had the police raids on the athletes hotel rooms like pro cycling has. It's been said that Armstrong has had to submit to testing between 100-300 times in his career and he's never tested non negative for a banned substance. To me it would be inconceivable for him to take a drug that might endanger his health. Here's a man who literally climbed out of his deathbed to climb some of the most demanding mountains in the world on a bike. Why would somebody like that take a drug that might endanger his health? Lance simply outworks the opposition. His defeat of cancer gave him the strength to put in the long hours on the bike that it takes to win 4 TDFs in a row.

Armstrong is one of the greatest athletes ever known though, but not solely because of his titles in the TDf. It's because there hasn't been an athlete as close to death as he was because of cancer, where he was given only a 20-30% chance of survival. At one point his testicular cancer had spread to his lungs and his brain. For that he will always be remembered as one of the greatest athletes I've ever seen.

[pathogan]

great great athlete,though 4 is not unprecedented,nor is his margin of victory. Extraordinary athlete, certainlt yhelped by his marketability and the fact that he can concentrate on one race per year.

[Sal Maglie]

Extraordinary athlete, certainlt yhelped by his marketability and the fact that he can concentrate on one race per year.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you here, but how exactly can marketability help you to win bike races? Btw, there are other cyclists who could choose to concentrate solely on the TDF as their main goal each year, and Ullrich plus a few others do to a great extent. But for the most the European sponsors of teams do have a priority based more on a diverse calendar of racing. However, Italian based companies now place more emphasis on the Giro, just like Spansih based companies place more improtance on the Vuelta. Like Armstrong says, everybody is getting more specialized in their focus on which races they peak for. It is a phenomenon of the new modern era of cycling of which Armstrong is at the forefront. Some say it's detrimental to the sport. I say it was inevitable. An athlete can't maintain a year round peak to perform at his/her very best, and you'd better be at your peak if you want to win a race like the TDF.

[soxfan121]

Originally posted by Sal Maglie


Maybe I'm misunderstanding you here, but how exactly can marketability help you to win bike races?

I was listening to Cedric Maxwell (the old Boston Celtics forward) on the radio today, and he explained as well as it can be explained. (paraphrased) "Lance is in the other guys heads. Being an elite athlete isn't physical; most athletes are very similar in the physical abilities. It is the mental aspect, the mental focus that separates the great from the elite. Lance, like Tiger, Jordan, Bird, and other greats has an edge from the moment he shows up at the [competition]. He is in their heads and he is able to dominate them mentally."

Everyone riding the TDF KNOWS Lance is going to be there. The know Lance is the man to beat. They know Lance hasn't been beaten in this race for 4 years. And they know Lance has a will that only the few great ones have. That is Lance's public personna, his mojo, if you will. And that "mojo" comes from his status both as a great athlete and as a cult figure, a personality - and that, has been carefully honed and marketed.

[Sal Maglie]

Well he certainly has a psychological edge going in now to the TDF due to his past wins. I just don't equate actual performance with marketability. His dominance in this event also comes from his rather unique style of climbing with a rapid cadence. Most riders push a bigger gear up those mountains at slow cadence, but Armstrong spins a smaller gear at about 100 rpm. This I think is going to revoltutionize racing and I think we'll see more of that technique in the future. It seems to save wear and tear on the knees, a problem that kept big gear protanganist Ullrich from racing this year. Of course it takes a great amount of aerobic endurance to maintain a cadence like that up a mountain, but Armstrong has proven that with the right amount of training, it is possible to do it. That's why I think you'll see more riders try to adopt his technique. all it would take then is to outtrain Armstrong, and athletes egos allow them to think they can. Whether or not they will beat Lance in the next 2 years is a different story, because this year seemed to be an easier win for Armstrong. He didn't have to attack as often or worry about others attacking him.

But expanding on your point about Arsmtrong's presence in the peloton of the TDF, it was mentioned that he might be the new "patron". Being a parton is somewhat rare with only the true greats being able to control and dictate the other racers. In fact the word dictate is an appropriate word for a "patron", as that rider becomes more or less a dictator who can control attacks with just his word. In the past there were patrons like Merckx, Anquetil, and very few others. But I think those days are over where a patron can gain power in the peloton. Like most of the sports world, there's just too much money involved.

[pathogan]

His marketablity helpswhen people give endorsements,which enables him to live in the south of france and train for one race ayear. I was referring to his popularity, not that endorsements help him win, though they do enable him to train year round instead of being as bicycle messanger.