USA vs the world?

[gyb13]

I thought this was interesting enough for a new thread:
Originally posted by Craig S.
Maybe you're right. Being Canadian, I'm likely bringing my own slant to this one. I guess if you're from a country like Brazil, playing the Americans in a sport you dominate wouldn't mean as much as being a strong country.

I guess I was looking at it from the point of view of a country beating the big, bad top-dog USA at anything. I thought most countries saw them this way, especially since they dominate so many sports, and they seem to be getting better at the ones they haven't ruled in yet (soccer, hockey, winter sports in general). But again, I come from one of those natural rivalry countries - although hardly a rivalry since we beat them only in hockey and curling - so I'm sure I see it in my own way.
I think that, in general, in sports, the opponents you most like to beat (or that to the players there is most mystique of playing against) are those teams/nations that are storied/traditional. In football, I believe there is a mystique when you face a Brasil or an England or an Italy. In basketball, it's the US. Every Brasilian still remembers the 1987 pan-american games, when Brasil beat the US (comprised of college stars such as the Admiral) for the gold medal. But I don't think that the 'let's beat them because they're the USA' mentality is as widespread as you think. Except, as I said, for countries that are the US's 'natural rivals' (Mexico, Trinidad-Tobago in football; Canada in hockey, etc)

[SmedIndy]

In basketball, yes, because we are the best.

In soccer, beating the US is like beating Wales or the Faeroe Islands.

In baseball, everyone wants to get Cuba, I think, before us.

[soxfan121]

Given the extensive anti-American demonstrations going on in S. Korea right now, I'd have to lean to the "everyone wants to beat US" position.

It seems strange to interject this, but I think the post 9/11 world is either "for" or "against" with many more against - at least in the non-European world.

I have no way of confirming this feeling other than through my perception of current world events, which, to be kind, has been severely skewed in the last year.

[gyb13]

Originally posted by soxfan121
It seems strange to interject this, but I think the post 9/11 world is either "for" or "against" with many more against - at least in the non-European world.
I feel you have your leadership to blame for this. Things aren't as black and white as GWB's rhetoric. But he created the chasm by ignoring the gray nuances of the ideological differences throughout the world.

[gyb13]

Originally posted by soxfan121
Given the extensive anti-American demonstrations going on in S. Korea right now, I'd have to lean to the "everyone wants to beat US" position.
here's a link to this story: http://worldcup.espnsoccernet.com/story?id=215477&lang=us

[soxfan121]

Talk about a home field advantage!

[moose]

Originally posted by gyb13

I feel you have your leadership to blame for this. Things aren't as black and white as GWB's rhetoric. But he created the chasm by ignoring the gray nuances of the ideological differences throughout the world.
Not surprising.

Anyway, it may not always be that the US is targeted as the best team, but I would say there always SEEMS to be some sort of significance to beating the US, whether it's b/c we're among the best (basketball) or just because we're the US... (neither of which particularly bother me)

[SmedIndy]

Some of this is related to the Speed Skating snafu....

[poorme]

Originally posted by moose

Anyway, it may not always be that the US is targeted as the best team, but I would say there always SEEMS to be some sort of significance to beating the US, whether it's b/c we're among the best (basketball) or just because we're the US... (neither of which particularly bother me)

For whatever reason there are many in the world who are jealous (or afraid) of America and Americans. People of other nationalities get their kicks from being better than America at something, anything.

[sweaver]

Remember, it's not paranoia if there really IS someone out to get you...:D

[moose]

Originally posted by poorme
For whatever reason there are many in the world who are jealous (or afraid) of America and Americans. People of other nationalities get their kicks from being better than America at something, anything.
I would add resentful and/or generally outraged at how we act, both as people and as a country.

[Skip]

I think the U.S. has done more to benefit the world in the past century than any country/empire/whatever has ever done.

I think the U.S. has made mistakes, some horrible, usually for political reasons, that serve to enrage many countries/peoples/religions around the world.

I think that many of the enraged conveniently forget about how they have benefitted from my first point while focusing too closely on my second.

I think the U.S. can have an arrogant and capricious attitude when dealing with some of the rest of the world. Just like the U.K. before us, Spain before them, and other nations (China, Japan, ...) in more regionalized ways have for a long time.

And, I think U.S. policy (good and bad) to the world is independent of political party. Both have done good and bad and we should keep that dynamic out of this.

That said - do you think its possible to keep this on sport rather than politics? Can they be separated in this instance? Perhaps in most cases we can just view any rivalry with the U.S. as an underdog celebrating a way of bettering a generally larger, richer competitor.

[sweaver]

In this case, I think we are discussing politics spilling over into the sports arena.

[Duque]

I agree with everything Skip said.

There are some cases where politics and nationalism get involved in things - like and Iran/USA match, or the '80 Winter Olympics and the Miracle on Ice game, when a sporting event can take on a greater political aura. Call it the Rocky III effect (or was it IV?)

In soccer/futbol, I doubt there's any kind of beat-the-US mentality. Just like in baseball, everyone wants to beat the Yankees, I think in the World Cup, everyone would like to beat Brasil/France/etc.

[LeGrandOrange]

Rocky IV was the one.
Thing with soccer is that the team to beat always seems to vary...in...18(?) world cups, only one team has repeated. Brazil is no longer "the" powerhouse as well, it's then, Germany, France, Italy, Argentina, and several others. FIFA's done a great job with parity, and it never gets boring. It's depressing in years that an England doesn't make it or a Holland doesn't make it, but FIFA's system works. To a point. I want to see Australia, darn it! If Mark Bosnich still plays for them, I'd want to see them more.

[pathogan]

Originally posted by Skip
I think the U.S. has done more to benefit the world in the past century than any country/empire/whatever has ever done.

I think the U.S. has made mistakes, some horrible, usually for political reasons, that serve to enrage many countries/peoples/religions around the world.

I think that many of the enraged conveniently forget about how they have benefitted from my first point while focusing too closely on my second.

I think the U.S. can have an arrogant and capricious attitude when dealing with some of the rest of the world. Just like the U.K. before us, Spain before them, and other nations (China, Japan, ...) in more regionalized ways have for a long time.

And, I think U.S. policy (good and bad) to the world is independent of political party. Both have done good and bad and we should keep that dynamic out of this.

That said - do you think its possible to keep this on sport rather than politics? Can they be separated in this instance? Perhaps in most cases we can just view any rivalry with the U.S. as an underdog celebrating a way of bettering a generally larger, richer competitor.

I think the thread is related to the spillover like the us/ussr hocky match or the ussr/hungary water polo in 1956[where the water was literally filled with blood}...by the way, skip, i disagree totally with what you opined,but that IS for another thread...

[Craig S.]

I think it comes down to others being resentful of the most powerful nation. That jealousy, political difference, or whatever it may be always leads others to want to beat the Americans. It's like by doing so, they have conquered a little bit of the U.S. in their own way. Like an Iranian wrestler giving his whole country some kind of satisfaction for beating an American - very strange.

It really bothered me watching the actions and attitudes of some Canadians during this year's Winter Olympics, specifically regarding the hockey competition. When we won the gold, instead of celebrating for Canada, too many people seemed to be celebrating against Americans. The same Americans who we cheer for all through the NHL season, and who are some of the best guys on and off the ice. In this case, I think it's due to the fact that Canada is next door to a neighbor who is stronger and wealthier. It really made me realize how warped a view too many Canadians have of this country.