Stoking the Flames

[BuzzBuzzard]

I was surprised to see Zimmer drawing attention to the Piazza/Clemens 'thing' with his comments in Esquire. Let me pose this question. Was it appropriate for Zimmer to make the comments at this point or as a person in a position to help move beyond the past? I don't ask this in terms of whether you agree or disagree with the content of Zimmer's comments (I'd bet that goes right down party lines), but whether it was appropriate for him to speak out at this time.

[NetShrine]

From ESPN.com:

Referring to last season's incident in which Piazza took a Clemens fastball off the helmet, Zimmer told Esquire: "Piazza made a little man out of himself. I don't care who knows it, I lost a little respect for Piazza."

Piazza accused the five-time Cy Young Award winner of throwing at him intentionally and that's where Zimmer takes exception.

"When Piazza said that in his mind, 'No doubt he threw at me,' that stinks," Zimmer said. "Is Piazza the only (player) in America who ever got hit in the head with a ball? That's what burned my (expletive). There's only one man in the world that knows: the guy that threw it."

Piazza told Newsday that he knew about the Esquire article and brought it up himself to reporters Wednesday before the Mets-Orioles game at Camden Yards. But he told the newspaper he wouldn't comment before reading the story.

Zim is an old man who says what he wants - without worrying about what others think or may happen - - - I think because his attitude is "I'm old, what do I care?"

Indeed, IMHO, this is bad timing - - 'tho, who knows when he said it? The interview could have happened in March and Esquire is just releasing it now - because of the series this weekend. That happens often.

[Mexicani Blue]

Originally posted by NetShrine
...."I'm old, what do I care?"....

I'm old too, and frankly I don't care!! :redhot: .

This was a year ago. Why do we have to rehash the past all the time??? It was a unfortunate incident and my opinion of whether it was intentional or not is irrelevant at this point. So let bygones be bygones. Even if you are an old Popeye lookalike!!

Mex

[NetShrine]

Mex - just a feeling, but, I think we're going to see something this weekend. Even if Clemens doesn't play, I think someone like Turk, or maybe even Leiter, will slip one under the chin of Bernie, Jeter, or Posada.

Benitez has a history of throwing at Tino - - he could come into play as well.

Again, just a feeling, - - - we'll soon see.

[Mexicani Blue]

Originally posted by NetShrine
Mex - just a feeling, but, I think we're going to see something this weekend. Even if Clemens doesn't play, I think someone like Turk, or maybe even Leiter, will slip one under the chin of Bernie, Jeter, or Posada.

Benitez has a history of throwing at Tino - - he could come into play as well.

I hope you are wrong, Net. 2 wrongs don't make a right.

Mex

[NetShrine]

Actually, as a Yankee fan, if the Mets were to come up and in on someone - or even throw low and behind someone - it wouldn't bother me. The Yanks should be expecting something.

To be honest, if it was the reverse, say, Benitez had beaned Jeter, I would want the Yanks to send a message back - to say "if you do this, we're not going to take it lying down."

Based on Bobby V's comments during the recent FLA bean brawls, I really do expect something.

What could be interesting is - what happens after something happens.

I remember a few years back when Armando hit Tino - - the fight that followed was legit. ('Tho, most of the big sluggers from that one - Nelson, Lloyd, Straw - are no longer on the team.)

I'm really not sure if the Yanks have any fighters on their team this season. I do know that the Mets have a few - - Turk, Harris, for some. Could be interesting.

[BuzzBuzzard]

Here's a hypothetical. Leiter hits Bernie between the numbers. Benches clear. Does Roger keep his distance? Does some Met go hunting for him?

Something will happen. Roger has got to learn what it means to his boys when he goes head hunting, especially when he is not there to get a taste of his own.

[NetShrine]

I may be wrong, but, I think Clemens rarely is on the bench, when not pitching. Often, he's in the weight room or something. So, there's a chance he won't even know about needing to go the field until it's too late.

As far as anyone "looking" for someone, in these cases, I think things happen so fast that it would be difficult to get on a bounty chase. Not to say that a sucker punch could not be let go after the fight as people are milling around.

Back to your comment
"Roger has got to learn what it means to his boys when he goes head hunting, especially when he is not there to get a taste of his own."

One could comment that Piazza has got to learn that he may get hit if he thinks he can dive into the plate and feast off the middle of the plate out. ;)

To this day, I do not think Clemens wanted to "head hunt" - - did he want to move him off the plate? Sure, up until then, Piazza undressed Clemens in almost every AB.

If you look at the replay, Piazza had no idea as far as how to react to an high inside pitch. I'm not saying he's a fault for getting hit - - but, it wasn't like Posada was holding him in a bear hug when he got beaned.

All the great power pitchers have been sucessful by moving batters off the plate. Clemens going inside should have been a surprise to no one.

As far as not being there to get a taste of his own, well, I want to look at the Hit Batters total for Drysdale and his own batting HBP totals. Betcha he still hit more than he got hit. I'm sure Clemens would take one if he had too - - he's built like a bull, and he's not afraid of a ball (pitchers get peppered by comebackers all the time).

[willyg]

Originally posted by NetShrine
Based on Bobby V's comments during the recent FLA bean brawls, I really do expect something.

What could be interesting is - what happens after something happens.

I remember a few years back when Armando hit Tino - - the fight that followed was legit. ('Tho, most of the big sluggers from that one - Nelson, Lloyd, Straw - are no longer on the team.)

I'm really not sure if the Yanks have any fighters on their team this season. I do know that the Mets have a few - - Turk, Harris, for some. Could be interesting.

As for guys who would mix it up on the Yanks, I think Posada would be one. But as far as anyone else is concerned, I'm not sure. Pettitte, today's starting pitcher. Mussina, no. Clemens, better off staying out of it. Rivera, please no. Possibly Stanton, but many of the other guys are so new.

As for the regular players, I could see Bernie, Tino, and even Jeter being more involved.

When the Yanks got into it with Seattle a few years ago Bernie took down Dan Wilson from what I remember.

Just like you would have Mets looking for Roger, you would have Tino and a few Yanks looking for Benitez.

[NetShrine]

If I had to pick the fighters to look for, I would say:

Greene, Tino, Justice, and Spencer on the Yankee side.

Pratt, Harris, Ordonez, Timo, Turk, and Benitez on the Met side.

I truly believe, if fists start to fly, more Met punches will be thrown. Only because they have more players willing to mix it up.

[willyg]

Spencer is a good one.

That guy all mixed up, someone falls on his knee, Shayne is done.

[BuzzBuzzard]

Originally posted by NetShrine
To this day, I do not think Clemens wanted to "head hunt" - - did he want to move him off the plate? Sure, up until then, Piazza undressed Clemens in almost every AB.
And I think you've got your head buried in the sand. After the way Piazza owned him, bet your ass he threw at him with the intention of hitting him.

[NetShrine]

Originally posted by BuzzBuzzard
And I think you've got your head buried in the sand. After the way Piazza owned him, bet your ass he threw at him with the intention of hitting him.

How are you so sure? Could he not have been trying to brush him back only and Piazza foiled it by not getting out of the way?

[BuzzBuzzard]

There is only one person who knows for sure and that is Roger, but he's got a rep for doing this type of stuff. There is a pattern.

[NetShrine]

Just a pattern of pitching inside and moving guys off - - in fact, as far as I can remember, other than Piazza - he's never beaned anyone.

Coming into this season, he's made 511 starts and hit 124 batters. On average, he's good for 8 HB a year. Like I said, he will come inside, and, if you don't move, you will get hit. The hitting is not on purpose - just the coming inside.

Last year, for a point of comparison, Jeff Weaver, Matt Clement, Pedro Astacio, and Jamey Wright all had 15+ HB.

Pedro had 14. This is the big leagues, guys get hit.

[BuzzBuzzard]

PLayers who have gone 7 for 12 with 3 dnigers against Clemens do not get hit in the HEAD by accident.

[ChrisCary]

back to Zim,

The quote was made by him last year after it happened.
Esquire pulled the quote out and out it in the article to make it seem as if he made it recently to them

[NetShrine]

Originally posted by BuzzBuzzard
PLayers who have gone 7 for 12 with 3 dnigers against Clemens do not get hit in the HEAD by accident.

Again, they intentionally get buzzed high and tight - - the hitting part is an accident.

[BuzzBuzzard]

Once again, we agree to disagree. Enough said.