Shame on these baseball parents

[jpalexa]

NetShrine -- move this where you need to...
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Three coaches suspended after kids baseball game turns ugly
June 11, 2001

WINNIPEG, Manitoba (AP) -- Assistant coaches for two boys baseball teams were suspended after a weekend game at which parents cursed each other on the field while their kids looked on in shock.

The three coaches were suspended a total of 17 games and placed on one year's probation after getting into an obscenity-laced squabble involving parents during a double-header Saturday.

"We tore a strip off them," said Linda Tomanek, association vice president, after the punishment was handed down following a two-hour league meeting Sunday.

Maples assistant coaches Joe Bento and Eric Cuenco were each suspended for six games. Isaac Brook assistant coach Don Tapp was suspended for five games.

The coaches were also ordered to write letters of apology to each other and to their teams, Isaac Brock and Maples, as well as to the Midland North Winnipeg Seven Oaks Minor Baseball Association.

No punches were thrown during two melees that erupted between parents and coaches of the undefeated Mosquito division baseball teams, but the second game was called after parents charged onto the field.

The game's only official, 17-year-old umpire Dale Voss, called the game when he couldn't calm the enraged adults.

As he packed up his equipment, Voss said he felt intimidated by the middle-aged men.

"There were some big guys out there," he said. "What was I supposed to do? Mostly, I was embarrassed. The adults were acting like kids."

The initial argument broke out when one coach warned the other team's catcher of the danger of standing on the base line with a runner coming in. The other coach objected to the warning and soon parents were standing in the infield yelling at each other.

[NetShrine]

Not shocked at all - - this happens all the time. Really.

I played Little League for 4 or 5 years - - to be honest, the most vivid memory that I have from those years is being in the batter's box, stepping out, and looking at the "stands" for the other team - - they held maybe 25-30 people. At almost every game, the "adults" in the other stands would be screaming at me (as an opponent) with their faces red and full of anger and hate. These were the parents of the team I was playing against.

It was almost like the treatment John Rocker gets in Shea.

Only thing is, I never ripped anyone in SI, and I was only 12 years old.

And, that was 26 years ago!

One summer, I went to baseball camp. We played two full games each day - - just the kids and the instructors. I had more fun that year than all my years in Little League.

Because of this, I tell every parent I know - screw Little League - send you kids to baseball camp.

I also think that parents should be banned from the field at Little League games - - let 'em watch on closed circuit TV in a room far away - or tape it and give them the tape afterwards.

You read about this stuff too much on the papers not to do anything about it.

And, I know exactly how that ump must have felt. Kids should not be umping these games - that's another issue.

[BuzzBuzzard]

Originally posted by NetShrine

I also think that parents should be banned from the field at Little League games - - let 'em watch on closed circuit TV in a room far away - or tape it and give them the tape afterwards.
Don't penalize the parents that know how to act.

[NetShrine]

Originally posted by BuzzBuzzard
Don't penalize the parents that know how to act.

Realize this Buzz - - that's why I suggested some viewing option. Otherwise, I would have said - screw them all and just let the kids play.

Honestly, there is some pressure in playing in front of your family - at any level, even MLB.

I truly think the kids would have more fun, learn more, and not have as many scars if it was just them (both teams), the coaches, and the umps at the field.

[BuzzBuzzard]

Originally posted by NetShrine
Realize this Buzz - - that's why I suggested some viewing option. Otherwise, I would have said - screw them all and just let the kids play.
One of the greatest pleasures I ever got playing ball was SEEING my old man at the game and getting feedback and/or encouragement from him. Take that away and some kids will not lose something in the experience.

I understand that some parents take this too far, but Little League baseball should not be treated like the Tim McVeigh execution.

[NetShrine]

Originally posted by BuzzBuzzard
One of the greatest pleasures I ever got playing ball was SEEING my old man at the game and getting feedback and/or encouragement from him. Take that away and some kids will not lose something in the experience.

I understand this - - but, could you not also get this as you watched a tape of the game with him afterwards?

Even better, you can rewind, replay, slow-mo, etc. until your heart strings wear out.

[BuzzBuzzard]

I would want both the immediate real tiome feedback and the tape.

Sorry, we disagree on this one and I don't think you are going to convince me that parents sitting in a room somewhere watching the game on a feed with no fans present at the game is a good idea and somehow benefits the kids. Sure, it does safeguard against the abusive parent, but there is more downside than upside.

[NetShrine]

Agreeing to disagree is always fine. :)

[BuzzBuzzard]

As I was driving home Sunday morning, I caught the last hour or so of a broadcast on WFAN focusing around tennis parents specifically. One caller suggested that only grandparents could attend matches following the logic that grandparent are less likely to scream and shout and be abusive. I don't necessarily agree with that logic, but it is an interesting thought.

[ChrisCary]

Sickening.....that's all I got to say about it.

[BuzzBuzzard]

My bro-in-law decided he wanted to help out as an assistant coach this year for my nephew's team. Admittedly, he acknowledges that from a coaching perspective he was not well suited. All he was looking to do was pitch BP, hit flies or IF grounders. Help out, stupid stuff. He still had to go through 4 hours of 'training' as to how he was to act with the kids. What has become of society?

[NetShrine]

Originally posted by BuzzBuzzard
He still had to go through 4 hours of 'training' as to how he was to act with the kids. What has become of society?

Lawsuits - - that's why the 4 hours were necessary.

Sad, indeed - - but, again, necessary in these days.

[jpalexa]

My ideal would be to harshly penalize (ban, fine, jail) the offending parents while allowing the 99% of normal parents to enjoy their kids' games.

The problem is enforcement -- no 17-year-old umpire is going to make this happen. Hell, no one umpire of *any* age and stature is going to make this happen when there is a mob of parents.

Make all the parents sign behavior contracts. Let them know the consequences. Maybe you'd have to video tape all the games and dish out the penalties afterwards.

In the case reported, any parent shown on the field would be suspended for the remainder of this season plus next. Fined, jailed, whatever. Harsh and swift.

Of course, the price of enforcement is just too high for this lazy-ass society of ours. Much easier to just ban ALL the parents from watching the game. Too bad for the rest of us, unfortunately.

Actually, the event that would *least* surprise me is for Little League to just throw in the towel and fold the league -- too much hassle.

[NetShrine]

Maybe the just need ushers for the parents - and, the first sign of trouble, they are asked to leave - - and bring their kid with them.

Or, would that cause more fights?

[mainsr]

Well, I've got first-hand experience here, having watched my oldest son play soccer for something like five years running. While I have seen some slightly out-of-line behavior, most of it is very tame. The most common complaint I have is parents trying to coach their kids from the sideline, which isn't that bad.

This is just local civic soccer, not more organized. My son's trying out for the travel team next week, and I hear the parents there are worse. But we'll see.

I have three theories:

First, the more traditional the sport, the worse the parents. I'll bet football, baseball, and basketball parents are worse than, say, soccer and lacrosse, because the parents were raised on the former sports.

Second, I know I'll get in trouble for this, but I'll be parents in the sticks are better than those in the cities and the 'burbs. Yes, they're also stupider. But the lifestyle up here just isn't as intense. I've lived in Manhattan and upstate; it really is like two states.

Third, this whole organized sports thing is an abomination. When I was a kid, we played baseball at a field at the end of our block. We played football in a kid's backyard that didn't have trees. No parents. We selected our teams, made our rules, and solved our disputes ourselves. I think that not only does the presence of parents change the game, but the organized leagues rob kids of the opportunity to learn about fair play and sportsmanship on their own.

PS - If you ever do watch your kid play, heed my son's advice. I once asked him a few years ago if he liked it when I told him where to position himself and stuff like that. He said, "Dad, the only thing you should say is 'Yay Alan!'"

[NetShrine]

Rob - are you sitting down? I agree with all three of your points - excellent post, IMHO. Thanks.

[jpalexa]

Originally posted by NetShrine
Maybe the just need ushers for the parents - and, the first sign of trouble, they are asked to leave - - and bring their kid with them.

Or, would that cause more fights?

Who is going to fund these bouncers? And on whose authority? This is my point -- enforcement of the few bad apples in unaffordable. Much cheaper (and lazier) to restrict everyone.

[jpalexa]

Originally posted by mainsr
PS - If you ever do watch your kid play, heed my son's advice. I once asked him a few years ago if he liked it when I told him where to position himself and stuff like that. He said, "Dad, the only thing you should say is 'Yay Alan!'"

That might be the best thing ever posted here!

[jpalexa]

Originally posted by mainsr
Third, this whole organized sports thing is an abomination. When I was a kid, we played baseball at a field at the end of our block. We played football in a kid's backyard that didn't have trees. No parents. We selected our teams, made our rules, and solved our disputes ourselves. I think that not only does the presence of parents change the game, but the organized leagues rob kids of the opportunity to learn about fair play and sportsmanship on their own.


Not to mention this whole -- "We don't keep score" thing and "Everybody gets a trophy" crap. Very shortsighted, UN-sportsmanlike, and long-term damaging. Even my eleven-year-old daughter sees through this.

[Shel]

What an awful story. I feel so sorry for the kids on both teams.

Originally posted by jpalexa
My ideal would be to harshly penalize (ban, fine, jail) the offending parents while allowing the 99% of normal parents to enjoy their kids' games.

Make all the parents sign behavior contracts. Let them know the consequences. Maybe you'd have to video tape all the games and dish out the penalties afterwards.

In the case reported, any parent shown on the field would be suspended for the remainder of this season plus next. Fined, jailed, whatever. Harsh and swift.I agree. I'm sure most parents know how to behave at their kids' games. Those who don't should be severely punished.

Oh, and mainsr, your son is a genius!

[NetShrine]

Originally posted by Shel
Oh, and mainsr, your son is a genius!

My head hurts - - can not decide whether I should post
"They say genius skips a generation" or "Studies show intellect is inherited from the mother's side"?

Pick the one that works best for you. :jester:

[mainsr]

Originally posted by jpalexa


Not to mention this whole -- "We don't keep score" thing and "Everybody gets a trophy" crap. Very shortsighted, UN-sportsmanlike, and long-term damaging. Even my eleven-year-old daughter sees through this.

Actually, I don't have as big a problem with that. In my kids' youth soccer, they really don't keep score - no scores reported to the league, no standings kept. If he makes what we call the travel soccer team (tryouts next week), that'll change. Also, I like that everybody gets this dinky little trophies. For little kids, I think they should just let 'em play. That's another problem with organized sports - on the sandlot, if one team is far better than the other, the kids adjust things to make 'em more even. You can't do that in organized sports.

When the leagues are competitive, then of course there should be winners and losers.

[jpalexa]

I s'pose in the "early rounds" of learning and involvement with a sport, it is good to have a scoreless, fun, learning environment. I don't have a problem with that. Actually, I think that helps promote a game and keeps kids involved.

It just seems that the line between instructional/recreational and competitive is getting more and more blurred these days. I guess as long as there are outlets for both, then it will be fine.

This discussion *has* made me ponder more about the overall worth of "organized" sports. Why is my sense that sandlot was a better life-lesson teacher?! :)

[NetShrine]

Originally posted by jpalexa
Why is my sense that sandlot was a better life-lesson teacher?! :)

Agreed - plus, you got to play. Some kids in Little League only play a few innings per game and are lucky to get 2 ABs per game. What good is that?