Favorite players on different teams

[Shel]

This really sucks, let me tell you. I went to Cleveland over the weekend to see the Indians/Yankees series, and I struggled with which team to root for -- the Yankees and Mike Mussina, or the Indians and Robbie Alomar. I've been a Moose fan longer than I've been an Alomar fan...but Moose didn't pitch in Cleveland...and I know Robbie personally...but I wanted the Yankees to move past Boston in the AL East...and that stupid drum guy at the Jake was really getting on my nerves...and my roommate (an Alomar/Indians fan) threatened me with bodily harm when I put on my Yankees cap for Saturday's game.....AAAAAUUGGGHHHHH!!!!! :(

I ended up wimping out, and I pretty much rooted for both teams in each game. I cheered whenever anyone on either team got a hit, which annoyed the hell out of my roommate on Saturday when Jeter and Knoblauch hit the crap out of the Indians. I laughed when David Justice ran face first into the left field wall in Saturday's game, and I also laughed when Jacob Cruz tumbled into the Indians' bullpen as he tried to catch a fly ball in that same game.

Overall, I was pleased with the results of the series -- the Yanks won 2 out of the 3 games -- but it was a very stressful weekend! God help me if the Indians and Yankees meet in the postseason. (I'm pretty sure I'd root for the Yankees in that situation...I think....)
:mconfuse:

[BuzzBuzzard]

The simple solution to your problem, Shel, is to be loyal to your team, not individual players. Once the player leaves the team, treat them as being dead to you.

[ChrisCary]

I like alot of players, but no amount of loyalty or enjoyment of a single player is above my loyalty to the Yankees.

And for the record, any team that employs Roberto Alomar I wish bad things upon

[willyg]

I agree with Buzz.

You are loyal to the uniform, not the player.

But sometimes when "your guy" leaves, and if it was really your guy it makes it awfully tough.

Personally for me seeing a Rivera, Jeter, or Pettitte ever not playing in pinstripes would be tough.

[BuzzBuzzard]

I obviously exaggerated my response because there are guys I root for who have given their all for my team and did not choose to leave on their own. I will continue to root for their success, but just not at my team's expense. Push come to shove, it is the shirt on their back that counts, not the name on the shirt.

[ChrisCary]

Originally posted by BuzzBuzzard
Push come to shove, it is the shirt on their back that counts, not the name on the shirt.

no doubt about it.

[Shel]

The problem for me is that I feel no loyalty to a particular baseball team. My closest local team is the Orioles -- "local" as opposed to "home" team, which I don't have because I live near DC -- and I've only been a baseball fan since 1995, when Cal Ripken broke Lou Gehrig's record. The hype surrounding "the streak" was what made me start watching the Orioles, and Mike Mussina was one of the main reasons why I decided to stick with baseball and learn about the game. Living near DC rather than in or near Baltimore, I've never considered the Orioles to be "my" team, so I never really "bonded" with them. Besides, I thought the Orioles front office was a joke pretty much right from the start, which didn't exactly do much to help me embrace the team.

I grew up watching football, and I've been a Redskins fan pretty much since birth. As far as I'm concerned, they don't even need to put players' names on the uniforms. Without question, my loyalty is to the team, not to individual players. If one of the Redskins were to sign with an NFC East rival -- just as Mussina signed with the Yankees -- that player would indeed be "dead" to me, as Buzz said. Unfortunately, I feel no such loyalty to the Orioles, so when my favorite players have left, I've sort of "followed" them to their new teams.

It would definitely be easier to be a fan of a team rather than a fan of certain players. Maybe if DC ever gets a MLB team of its own, I can become loyal fan of that team. Unfortunately, by the time that happens, I'll probably be too old to give a rat's ass........

[Jen]

Shel, I understand your point, but being from Ohio, I can safely admit I have never liked the Indians or the Reds. It's been Yankee baseball from the beginning for me. Sure it's not as much fun being a long distance fan, but it's still do-able. I was fortunate enough to have a Yankee-crazed uncle who took me to all the games he could, and I have to credit my baseball upbringing to him. But I also have an uncle that lives in Baltimore who would schedule his summer trips home around the Orioles so he could catch some games and he always took me to those, too. (Cal Ripkin will always have a special place in my baseball heart, even if he isn't a team player, as they say.)

I think it must be harder to be a fan of an individual player these days, having to follow some of them around through so many trades and free agency, but hey, if that's your cup of tea, so be it. :)

[NetShrine]

Shel - great thread. Thanks for the start.

In Veeck as in Wreck, Bill Veeck talks about this - and this was like 40 years ago that he wrote it - - woman fans tend to like players over teams, will be more likely to start a fan club, etc. Amazing stuff - - I'll look for a quote tonight.

Sienfeld does a bit about rooting for the "uniform." He's right - I would have thrown dung at Boggs the Bosox. But, I rooted for him as a Yankee. It's the team for me.

[jpalexa]

Of course, as we all know, a big part of this is the unfortunate by-product of free agency. I wonder what impact team-hopping has had on building/destroying the base of new or fringe fans.

My mom, who got hooked on baseball when the Braves had their worst-to-first in the early '90s no longer follows the Braves because she can't keep up with her "favorite" players who have left.

I'd certainly like to see more players spending more seasons with the same team, but I can't see how we'd get back to something like that. So, now, I pull for my team *and* I pull for my guys. If my team is playing against my guys, I hope my guys have a good night but lose a squeaker to my team!

[NetShrine]

Go into the NetShrine Gallery and look at the players from the past and see that many of them changed teams often too - - - just wasn't by their choice.

Never bought into the "Free Agency makes it impossible to follow the players" position since players have always moved around.

[NetShrine]

Originally posted by NetShrine
In Veeck as in Wreck, Bill Veeck talks about this - and this was like 40 years ago that he wrote it - - woman fans tend to like players over teams, will be more likely to start a fan club, etc. Amazing stuff - - I'll look for a quote tonight.

Keep in mind this was written in 1962:

"Once a woman becomes a fan, she is the best fan in the world. A woman fan focuses her interest, not surprisingly, on one individual player and follows him with a fierce and commendable loyalty. Most fan clubs are started by girls. To show how personal the feminine mind is, one woman asked me, on what I suppose was her first visit to the park, why we didn't let her know what the first names of the players were, a point which had never occurred to me before. The next day, we added the first names to the scoreboard listings. Not a bad idea, when you come right down to it."

[Shel]

I just re-read this thread. It's funny how completely different my attitude is about loyalty to a team vs. loyalty to players where football and baseball are concerned.

I am in total agreement with Buzz, Chris, and Willy with regard to my loyalty to my favorite (football) team. As a lifelong Redskins fan, I can't imagine rooting for a former Redskins player against my team...or "following" a former Redskins player to another team, especially if that team was a division rival. I think if you've been a fan or a particular team for all/most of your life, then your loyalty should be with your team, not with any particular player. I was a big Joe Montana fan, but I never rooted for Joe and the 49ers to beat the Redskins. In fact, I was thrilled on the rare occasions when the Redskins were able to beat him and the 49ers.

But baseball is different for me. It wasn't part of my childhood. If I'd been an Orioles fan since I was a kid, I might actually be one of the O's fans calling Mike Mussina a traitor. But the fact is that I don't bleed black and orange, and I never did. So my loyalty is with "my guys." And Jen, it is tough to follow individual players, with free agency and trades. I'm just happy that Alomar and Mussina are both still in the American League.

The Veeck quote is interesting, Net. Thanks for sharing it.

[BuzzBuzzard]

Originally posted by NetShrine
"Once a woman becomes a fan, she is the best fan in the world. A woman fan focuses her interest, not surprisingly, on one individual player and follows him with a fierce and commendable loyalty. Most fan clubs are started by girls. To show how personal the feminine mind is, one woman asked me, on what I suppose was her first visit to the park, why we didn't let her know what the first names of the players were, a point which had never occurred to me before. The next day, we added the first names to the scoreboard listings. Not a bad idea, when you come right down to it." Didn't this resurface in the '90s under the title,Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus ?

[jpalexa]

Originally posted by NetShrine
Go into the NetShrine Gallery and look at the players from the past and see that many of them changed teams often too - - - just wasn't by their choice.

Never bought into the "Free Agency makes it impossible to follow the players" position since players have always moved around.

Sure, players have always moved around. It just *seems* like there was less of it "back then" -- especially among the "superstars".

At any rate, it doesn't appear as there will ever be much player/team continuity going forward. I wonder how things would be different -- from a fan perspective -- if the same core guys played more than five years for each team?

[bagger015]

:) Yankee fan always and forever. Same with Big Blue in the nfl. Agreed players have always moved around but
you did not hear of read about it as often. Mass media
improvements radio, tv and now the internet make big
deals out of nothing. You can sort of tell when it is a slow day in the news. :rolleyes: :devil:

[NetShrine]

Originally posted by BuzzBuzzard
Didn't this resurface in the '90s under the title, Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus ?

That book is just a rip/spin-off of the old classic -
Lincolns are from Mercury, Crap is from Uranus.

[BuzzBuzzard]

Originally posted by jpalexa
At any rate, it doesn't appear as there will ever be much player/team continuity going forward. I wonder how things would be different -- from a fan perspective -- if the same core guys played more than five years for each team? Not that it addresses your question, but think about how bad it would become if baseball adopted a salary cap like the NFL. Players would be on the move a whole lot more.

[ChrisCary]

I disagree, I think free agency is gonna come to a head and then begin to decline.

Too many teams are losing prospects and I think teams will begin signing younger, unproven kids to much longer contracts with incentives and excalator clauses for years of service and production numbers

Likewise too many teams are not realizing enough success after dumping tons of money into the fre agency market.


Also with even the average salary being well over a milion dollars more players are not chasing money as much as they're chasing either glory or the comforts of being close to home.

It may be a pipe dream on my part, but it seems like more and more less and less people like free agency and owners and players seem to be joining the fans in their distaste for free agency movement

[NetShrine]

Originally posted by ChrisCary
I think teams will begin signing younger, unproven kids to much longer contracts with incentives and excalator clauses for years of service and production numbers

They will - if they're smart.
Paying now is a lot easier than paying later.

[ChrisCary]

Originally posted by NetShrine
They will - if they're smart.

There goes that idea.

[bookwoman]

I have always been a team fan--the Orioles. Thanks for the laugh I got thinking about Bill Veeck. Midgets playing baseball & changes to the unis. What a character!

[NetShrine]

Originally posted by bookwoman
I have always been a team fan--the Orioles. Thanks for the laugh I got thinking about Bill Veeck. Midgets playing baseball & changes to the unis. What a character!

JB - been a while - - glad to see you're still with us at the forum :thumb:

Veeck indeed is a one and only! Strongly recommend "Veeck - as in Wreck" if you have not read it.