What ever happened to Brooks Kieschnick

[ChicagoDave]

I thought some of the Cubs fans would like this article.

Here is the article link Something to Prove (http://www.suntimes.com/output/cubs/cst-spt-inside16.html)

Go Brooks!

[Slippery Pedro]

You have to admire his love of the game. If he makes it, it's a great story.

[SmedIndy]

Talk about for the love of the game.

[gyb13]

man...some people have all the talent....

[KCBOOMER]

Originally posted by SmedIndy
Talk about for the love of the game.

Yeah, maybe too much love of the game.

[Slippery Pedro]

If Ron Mahay can do it, why not Brooks?

[boot2112]

Brooks would not be the 1st. He was in the proud tradition of Cub 1st round picks in the 80's. Wonder where Ty Griffin is these days?

[SmedIndy]

Originally posted by boot2112
Brooks would not be the 1st. He was in the proud tradition of Cub 1st round picks in the 80's. Wonder where Ty Griffin is these days?

Brooks K. was a 90's pick wasn't he? And he didn't get a fair shake. He could hit; Earl Cunningham was the joke.

[gyb13]

Originally posted by SmedIndy
Brooks K. was a 90's pick wasn't he? And he didn't get a fair shake. He could hit; Earl Cunningham was the joke.
Smed, go back and read the article...he was drafted in 93, and didn't pan out because of his long swing..of course, 192 PA prove nothing, but once those baseball men see his BA (.220) :rolleyes:

[boot2112]

Ah yes the great Earl Cunningham!! Brooks was actually a '93 draft pick. The Cubs were so mismanaged for so many years it all seems like blur. I think I am going to look up the history of Cubs #1 picks and see how bad it was. Brooks was not as bad as many, hell hit did hit 8 big league homers. I actually hope he makes it as a pitcher just to prove once again that the Cubs had no idea what they were doing. If anyone knows where to find the history of Cub #1 pick I would apprciate the lead. I am sure this will prove quite entertaining.

[ChicagoDave]

Reviewing the Cubs #1 picks would be very interesting. I would be interested in that as well.

[poorme]

Courtesy of Baseball America:

1990 Lance Dickson
1991 Doug Glanville
1992 Derek Wallace
1993 Brooks Kieschnick
1994 Jayson Peterson
1995 Kerry Wood
1996 Todd Noel
1997 Jon Garland
1998 Corey Patterson
1999 Ben Christensen
2000 Luis Montanez
2001 Mark Prior

Actually, they've been pretty good since 95.

[boot2112]

Originally posted by poorme
Courtesy of Baseball America:

1990 Lance Dickson
1991 Doug Glanville
1992 Derek Wallace
1993 Brooks Kieschnick
1994 Jayson Peterson
1995 Kerry Wood
1996 Todd Noel
1997 Jon Garland
1998 Corey Patterson
1999 Ben Christensen
2000 Luis Montanez
2001 Mark Prior

Actually, they've been pretty good since 95.

Thanks poorme!! They have been a much better organization of late. McPhail knows what he is doing. Any chance we can see the 80's?

[SmedIndy]

Originally posted by gyb13

Smed, go back and read the article...he was drafted in 93, and didn't pan out because of his long swing..of course, 192 PA prove nothing, but once those baseball men see his BA (.220) :rolleyes:

Sorry, I was pressed for time. But I was replying to the point he was an '80's pick....

[poorme]

Originally posted by boot2112


Thanks poorme!! They have been a much better organization of late. McPhail knows what he is doing. Any chance we can see the 80's?

Unfortunately Baseball America doesn't have a list of 80s picks on their website. After years of my dad nagging at me, I let him throw away all my old BAs from the 80s. I knew they would come in handy someday:mad: That info must be available somewhere.

[poorme]

Originally posted by boot2112


Thanks poorme!! They have been a much better organization of late. McPhail knows what he is doing. Any chance we can see the 80's?

straining my brain:confuse2: i've come up with, not in order

shawon dunston
derrick may
joe carter
mike harkey
lance dickson
rafael palmeiro
drew hall

hall was a real bust

[SmedIndy]

dickson was 1990.

Don't forget Ty Griffin and Earl Cunningham.

[poorme]

Originally posted by SmedIndy
dickson was 1990.

Don't forget Ty Griffin and Earl Cunningham.

My one regret in life was never seeing Earl Cunningham play in person.

As an aside, I can remember arguing who would be better, Ventura and Thomas or Griffin and Cunningham! Larry Himes has never gotten much respect, but he did turn around a horrid White Sox team by drafting jack mcdowell, ventura, thomas, and alex fernandez. he also traded for Sammy Sosa twice! that alone should be worthy of another GM job.

[ChicagoDave]

I found them. Courtesy of the Chicago Cubs 2001 Information Guide.


Year Player POS Overall Pick
1965 Rick James RHP 6
1966 Dean Burke RHP 5
1967 Terry Hughes SS 2
1968 Ralph Rickey OF 15
1969 Roger Metzger SS 16
1970 Gene Hiser OF 19
1971 Jeff Wehmeier RHP 16
1972 Brian Vernoy LHP 15
1973 Jerry Tabb 1B 16
1974 Scot Thompson OF 7
1975 Brian Rosinski OF 4
1976 Herman Segelke RHP 7
1977 Randy Martz RHP 12
1978 Bill Hayes C 13
1979 Jon Perlman RHP 12
1980 Don Schulze RHP 11
1981 Joe Carter OF 2
- Vance Lovelace LHP 16
1982 Shawon Dunston SS 1
- Tony Woods IF 17
- Stan Boderick OF 27
1983 Jackie Davidson RHP 6
1984 Drew Hall LHP 3
1985 Rafael Palmeiro OF 22
- Dave Masters RHP 24
1986 Derrick May OF 9
1987 Mike Harkey RHP 4
1988 Ty Griffen 2B 9
1989 Earl Cunningham OF 23
1990 Lance Dickson LHP 23
1991 Doug Glanville OF 12
1992 Derrek Wallace RHP 11
1993 Brooks Kieschnick OF 10
- Jon Ratliff RHP 24
1994 Jayson Peterson RHP 15
1995 Kerry Wood RHP 4
1996 Todd Noel RHP 17
1997 Jon Garland RHP 10
1998 Corey Patterson OF 3
1999 Ben Christensen RHP 26
2000 Luis Montanez IF 3

A lot of names you have never seen again.

[sweaver]

Pretty rough beginning...things actually picked up in the 1980s.

[SmedIndy]

Originally posted by ChicagoDave
I found them. Courtesy of the Chicago Cubs 2001 Information Guide.


Year Player POS
1965 Rick James RHP

Go ahead, post your "Super Freak" puns and wordplay here....

[boot2112]

What a list!!! From my limited memory these are the players that made any impact in the bigs:

Metzger- life long utility guy.
Martz- cup of coffee for a few years
Schulze- RP for a few years/teams
Joe Carter- border line HOF for Cleveland, SD, and Toronto. Traded for Sutcliffe
Dunston- Solid career as a SS for many years
D. Hall- Bad LHRP was he in the deal that sent Palmerio to TX. I know he pitched there. Oh Mitch Williams.
May- LH 5th outfielder
Harkey- Big flop. Is he related to Jamie Navarro
Glanville-decent CF and LOM. Nothing special.
Wood- Stud with an injury history
Garland- 22 yr. old with potential, somewhat disappointing
Patterson- I fear an over-hyped failure. See Alex Ochoa and Juan Encarnicion

They did draft some playes in the 80's but they had a ton of pick and high ones at that. Ironic that the 2 best playes (Raffy and Carter) didn't spend much time with the Cubs. At least Carter brought Sutcliffe in trade. Of course there are rumors as to why Raffy was sent packing that had nothing to do with his ballplaying ability....or did it?

Overall I think you would be hard pressed to find an organization that got less from so much. Kind of explains the past 30 years.

[sweaver]

Roger Metzger was a regular shortstop with the Astros for several years, a good defensive player who couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat. He suffered some sort of an injury that finished him, hand I believe, in the late 1970s.

[poorme]

Originally posted by boot2112

Patterson- I fear an over-hyped failure. See Alex Ochoa and Juan Encarnicion


I've seen several Cub games this year and Patterson's looked great. Totally different from last year. I suspect he's finally put things together. 9 walks in 46 ABs is encouraging. I fear Garland is the over-hyped failure. Looks to be a one pitch pitcher to me.

[boot2112]

Originally posted by sweaver
Roger Metzger was a regular shortstop with the Astros for several years, a good defensive player who couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat. He suffered some sort of an injury that finished him, hand I believe, in the late 1970s.

This is true. I guess I remember him more with the Cards as a bench player. Of course it the early 70's teams did not expect much offense from the SS position. When Larry Bowa, Chris Spier, Mark Belanger, and the like were regularly in all-star games it shows how Yount and later Ripken re-defined the position.

[boot2112]

Originally posted by poorme


I've seen several Cub games this year and Patterson's looked great. Totally different from last year. I suspect he's finally put things together. 9 walks in 46 ABs is encouraging. I fear Garland is the over-hyped failure. Looks to be a one pitch pitcher to me.

Are they still batting him 2nd. We had an interesting thread about that a few weeks back. I thought that was the smartest thing I had see from Baylor in a long time. I am surprised that he would get the walks he couldn't get in the 7th and 8th holes batting in front of Sosa. He will need strike zone command b/c I don't think he will ever be a good average hitter. Hope I wrong but I have not seen it from him.

[poorme]

Originally posted by boot2112


Are they still batting him 2nd. We had an interesting thread about that a few weeks back. I thought that was the smartest thing I had see from Baylor in a long time

Patterson is batting 2nd, in front of Sosa. Probably the perfect place. You never know how players will develop. The sky's the limit with this guy, but if he can hit 260-270 with 15 hr's, he can have a long career. Being a Sox fan, I don't really care. I care about Joe Borchard, however....

[boot2112]

Originally posted by poorme


Patterson is batting 2nd, in front of Sosa. Probably the perfect place. You never know how players will develop. The sky's the limit with this guy, but if he can hit 260-270 with 15 hr's, he can have a long career. Being a Sox fan, I don't really care. I care about Joe Borchard, however....

We agree on that. I too am a Sox fan. I just have a hard time rooting against Corey Patterson, Sosa, Leiber, and that's about it. I guess I kind of like McGriff. Borchard has much higher upside than Patterson. Maybe I am seeing what I want to see. If Borchard was on the Cubs he would be getting ABs a lot sooner. Hell Jeff Liefer and or Aaron Rowand would be playing for the Cubs with Alou out. It will be interesting to see what the Sox do with the croded outfield

[poorme]

Originally posted by boot2112


Borchard has much higher upside than Patterson. Maybe I am seeing what I want to see.

I think, perhaps, you are. Patterson is a 5 tool guy, whereas Borchard seems to be just a power guy. I think Borchard can play CF, but scouts say he's too slow, so he'll never be given the opportunity. (Anybody remember Dave Gallagher? He was slow as molasses, but played a decent CF. )They'll have to trade Lee. Kenny Williams has made some really dumb trades, so that scares the heck out of me. In the unlikely event that the DH is eliminated next year they would have to deal Konerko also.:help:

[ChicagoDave]

Originally posted by boot2112


Are they still batting him 2nd. We had an interesting thread about that a few weeks back. I thought that was the smartest thing I had see from Baylor in a long time. I am surprised that he would get the walks he couldn't get in the 7th and 8th holes batting in front of Sosa. He will need strike zone command b/c I don't think he will ever be a good average hitter. Hope I wrong but I have not seen it from him.

Here is Patterson's Stats (http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/chc/stats/chc_individual_stats_player.jsp?playerID=279913)

Yes they are still batting him 2nd. He has looked alot better than he did last year. If he has about 550 ABs this year he is on pace to strike out about 98 times.

[SmedIndy]

I prefer CP sixth, especially when Hill comes up and Mueller gets back. That puts two on base guys at the top, and CP can hit sixth, in front of Gonzalez and the catcher du jour.

[boot2112]

Originally posted by poorme


I think, perhaps, you are. Patterson is a 5 tool guy, whereas Borchard seems to be just a power guy. I think Borchard can play CF, but scouts say he's too slow, so he'll never be given the opportunity. (Anybody remember Dave Gallagher? He was slow as molasses, but played a decent CF. )They'll have to trade Lee. Kenny Williams has made some really dumb trades, so that scares the heck out of me. In the unlikely event that the DH is eliminated next year they would have to deal Konerko also.:help:
I hate that term "5 tool guy". People tend to put that label on playes that are exceptional athletes. All too often these players are missing the single most important tool. The ability to make solid contact consistantly. I am not saying this will happen with Patterson but I have seen it too many times (Ruben Rivera). A great athlete does not a great player make; especially in baseball. Now all things being equal the better the athlete normally the better the player. I think Borchard has shown the ability to hit and hit well at highr levels with more consistancy than has Patterson; but I don't think he is a good solution in CF. He is a LF (or may be a RF and move Mags to LF). That is why I see Lee as trade bait. I don't see the moving Konerko even in the event the DH goes away. He will be a fixture on the South Side. Thomas will be the one to go. What does he have left on his contract? 2 years I think? I too worry about Kenny Williams (wasn't he supposed to be a 5 tool guy when he came out of Stanford?) making trades. If and when we trade Lee we need to get a #2 starter minimum. If we have to throw in second tier prospect to accomplish that than so be it.

[Slippery Pedro]

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