2nd Base Ump - No One On

[NetShrine]

Just noticed this year, with no runners on, 2nd base umpires are positioning themselves way out in short right center (about 15 yards away from 2B). They almost look like the "short CF" in softball positioned for a LH hitter.

Is this the first year they're doing this? Is a the residue of all the close calls on fans reaching over the walls for HRs?

[ChrisCary]

Easier to come in on a fly ball than go out.

Perhaps it's easier to come in for a call than go out for one?

[willyg]

I like the new positioning. On shoestring catches they have a much better view. Also with no one on if the second base ump has to make a call at second they have a chance to get back.

Now say they are running out in the outfield trying to make a call, they always have the first base ump that can be trailing the play.

[NetShrine]

Perhaps too they're now out of the hitters line of sight?

[mainsr]

1. Maybe they all read my post about how a ball striking an umpire before passing an infielder is automatically a single and they don't want to break up Schilling's next no-hit bid.

2. They all saw that Rich Garcia was not one of the umpires reinstated by the arbitrator, so they don't want to blow any home run calls.

[ChrisCary]

Originally posted by mainsr
1. Maybe they all read my post about how a ball striking an umpire before passing an infielder is automatically a single and they don't want to break up Schilling's next no-hit bid.



Is that true?

I always thought Umpires were fair play.
Do you have the rule #?

[NetShrine]

SABR guys sent me some stuff on this - - let me look for it. I'll also post a URL on the rules - if anyone wants to look for the Cary/Mains question.

[NetShrine]

Not a bad spot for rules:

http://www.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/baseball_basics/mlb_basics_foreward.jsp

[ChrisCary]

A FAIR BALL is a batted ball that settles on fair ground between home and first base, or between home and third base, or that is on or over fair territory when bounding to the outfield past first or third base, or that touches first, second or third base, or that first falls on fair territory on or beyond first base or third base, or that, while on or over fair territory touches the person of an umpire or player, or that, while over fair territory, passes out of the playing field in flight. A fair fly shall be judged according to the relative position of the ball and the foul line, including the foul pole, and not as to whether the fielder is on fair or foul territory at the time he touches the ball. If a fly ball lands in the infield between home and first base, or home and third base, and then bounces to foul territory without touching a player or umpire and before passing first or third base, it is a foul ball; or if the ball settles on foul territory or is touched by a player on foul territory, it is a foul ball. If a fly ball lands on or beyond first or third base and then bounces to foul territory, it is a fair hit. Clubs, increasingly, are erecting tall foul poles at the fence line with a wire netting extending along the side of the pole on fair territory above the fence to enable the umpires more accurately to judge fair and foul balls. [

[NetShrine]

I think Rob's point was that they are fair - - and a ball hitting them is an automatic hit - - even of the fielder picks it up and makes a play.

[ChrisCary]

5.08

If a thrown ball accidentally touches a base coach, or a pitched or thrown ball touches an umpire, the ball is alive and in play. However, if the coach interferes with a thrown ball, the runner is out.



I do notice that this doesn't include a hit ball

[NetShrine]

Here's a combination of the feedback I got from SABR members:

MLB's Umpire Development Program has mandated positioning of the second base umpire in the outfield of choice with nobody on base as the standard mechanic in a 4-man crew for several years.

Its "Umpire Manual," a companion to the rule book, states, "With no runners on base the second base umpire will position himself behind second base, several feet onto the outfield grass."

MLB now has many new umpires who were trained to do things by the book.

This may also be a result of the consolidation of the AL and NL umpiring staffs. There were a number of differences between the two leagues -- enough that the "Umpire Manual" issued to minor league umps
contains several references to crews working "the American League style" or "the National League style."

They're all on the same page now.

[ChrisCary]

Thanks Net.

THe MLB Official Rules state that the umpires can position themselves anyplace they want with the exception of the PLate umpire.

Here's the scoop on a batted ball hitting an Ump, it is a dead ball




5.09
The ball becomes dead and runners advance one base, or return to their bases, without liability to be put out, when_ (a) A pitched ball touches a batter, or his clothing, while in his legal batting position; runners, if forced, advance; (b) The plate umpire interferes with the catcher's throw; runners may not advance. NOTE: The interference shall be disregarded if the catcher's throw retires the runner. (c) A balk is committed; runners advance; (See Penalty 8.05). (d) A ball is illegally batted; runners return; (e) A foul ball is not caught; runners return. The umpire shall not put the ball in play until all runners have retouched their bases; (f) A fair ball touches a runner or an umpire on fair territory before it touches an infielder including the pitcher, or touches an umpire before it has passed an infielder other than the pitcher; If a fair ball touches an umpire working in the infield after it has bounded past, or over, the pitcher, it is a dead ball. If a batted ball is deflected by a fielder in fair territory and hits a runner or an umpire while still in flight and then caught by an infielder it shall not be a catch, but the ball shall remain in play. If a fair ball goes through, or by, an infielder, and touches a runner immediately back of him, or touches a runner after being deflected by an infielder, the ball is in play and the umpire shall not declare the runner out. In making such decision the umpire must be convinced that the ball passed through, or by, the infielder and that no other infielder had the chance to make a play on the ball; runners advance if forced; (g) A pitched ball lodges in the umpire's or catcher's mask or paraphernalia, and remains out of play, runners advance one base; If a foul tip hits the umpire and is caught by a fielder on the rebound, the ball is "dead" and the batsman cannot be called out. The same shall apply where such foul tip lodges in the umpire's mask or other paraphernalia. If a third strike (not a foul tip) passes the catcher and hits an umpire, the ball is in play. If such ball rebounds and is caught by a fielder before it touches the ground, the batsman is not out on such a catch, but the ball remains in play and the batsman may be retired at first base, or touched with the ball for the out. If a pitched ball lodges in the umpire's or catcher's mask or paraphernalia, and remains out of play, on the third strike or fourth ball, then the batter is entitled to first base and all runners advance one base. If the count on the batter is less than three balls, runners advance one base. (h) Any legal pitch touches a runner trying to score; runners advance.

[NetShrine]

Having fun with that rules page, huh?

[ChrisCary]

Originally posted by NetShrine
Having fun with that rules page, huh?

Not enough.
They used to have a search feature and a better index, but I guess in the downgrade they got rid of it.

But yeah, that's one of my pleasures is reading rules.

Some might not unerstand that.

You know what I LOVE?
Baseball Digest's "Rules Corner"

[mainsr]

Originally posted by ChrisCary
5.09
The ball becomes dead and runners advance one base, or return to their bases, without liability to be put out, when... (f) A fair ball touches a runner or an umpire on fair territory before it touches an infielder including the pitcher, or touches an umpire before it has passed an infielder other than the pitcher; If a fair ball touches an umpire working in the infield after it has bounded past, or over, the pitcher, it is a dead ball.

The runners advance and the scoring is a single. If it hits the ump, all hands are safe. If it hits the runner, the runner's out, with the fielder closest to the runner getting the putout. Either way, a no-hitter is busted.

[NetShrine]

Haven't read BBD in about 15 years. I do have a box load of old ones in my attic. They worth any money? :D