Clemens pitches on 3 days rest

[WiredTiger]

Does this seem a little risky? I have to question Torre's decision on this one. Why not put someone else out there and let Clemens take his normal turn. Roger is in good shape but I don't think you should risk things by pitching him too often.

[Duque]

Yankee bullpen was heavily taxed last night due to Pettitte only being able to go 2 2/3rds - everyone but Rivera and Stanton were used, so, unfortunately, Clemens was the only option.

Lest this gets criticized for being yet another Yankee post - I think anytime you have a pitcher getting up there in years, no matter how good he is, you have to handle him with kid gloves.

[nyy26wc]

If Lilly didn't pitch yesterday, he probably would have started today.

But, unless Torre wanted to do something like start Randy Choate and have the whole game be a pathwork bullpen game, he didn't really have other options.

[ChicagoDave]

This may be a mistake. Today's pitchers are not conditioned to go that offen. Clemen's is to old to hold up. Does anyone know how often Denny McClain pitch the year he won 31 games?

[ChrisCary]

I don't remember who but twice last year the scheduled starter came in with a stiff neck or some thing and Clemens volunteered to toe the rubber on short rest.
Both times the results were succesful.

Today not so.


I agree you gotta treat him with a little care but there wasn;t a whole lot of choice

[hmrsf]

I came out of a pt home and jumped into the car and almost hit the ceiling.

For many reasons I was pleased to hear Roger was pitching. 1.) He is one of my all time favorite players. I really enjoy watching/hearing him pitch. Thus you can see my conflict. 2.) It annoys my fellow fans, when I always stand and applaud when Clemens is announced and departs and strikes someone out. (Instinct, nothing preplanned. Would gladdly like to stop if I could.)3.) When he does not pitch against us, I tend to enjoy the game and see him win.

I was sorry to hear he was getting hammered. I am so relieved that we won't be facing him this weekend.

[b-ball-lunachik]

Originally posted by ChrisCary
I don't remember who but twice last year the scheduled starter came in with a stiff neck or some thing and Clemens volunteered to toe the rubber on short rest.


I thought it was only once, but you could be right...I'm pretty sure it was for El Duquecito/Adrian Hernandez who was scheduled to get his first start ever...



I agree you gotta treat him with a little care but there wasn;t a whole lot of choice

true enough...I'm worried about tomorrow too...Lilly didn't pitch too much so his name was thrown around if El Duque's neck strain isn't better...Stanton's name was also tossed around by the broadcasters...I hope they don't move everyone up -- the season is too young and moose especially is not good on short rest...

too bad for Rocket that he took the loss...he had a full bullpen session yesterday...his velocity was good but his command wasn't and he couldn't keep the ball down...too much plate...

[psunate29]

Rumor has it Clemens started a day early in fear of also getting a stiff neck from whiplash after facing the BoSox and his owner Trot Nixon. Too bad for him he got ripped anyway.

Go Sox!

[SmedIndy]

Originally posted by psunate29
Rumor has it Clemens started a day early in fear of also getting a stiff neck from whiplash after facing the BoSox and his owner Trot Nixon. Too bad for him he got ripped anyway.

Go Sox!

If Trot and Roger want to play "Master and Servant" on their own time, we should let them be....

[pathogan]

Originally posted by psunate29
Rumor has it Clemens started a day early in fear of also getting a stiff neck from whiplash after facing the BoSox and his owner Trot Nixon. Too bad for him he got ripped anyway.

Go Sox!


...you're not saying that roger Clemens would duck pitching in certain places, are you?...

[ChrisCary]

The scheduled pitcher was unable to start.

The bullpen was taxed the night before.

Clemens stepped up and asked for the ball.

Regardless of anyone's personal feelings on Roger Clemens there wasn't much of a choice in the matter.


Let's not let a thread about one day, one game turn into a trash talking session

[Slippery Pedro]

Two days ago, the Yankee rotation was going to steam roll - five 20-game winners :rolleyes: ............now, a Pettitte bomb and Hernandez neck later, the thing is falling like a house of cards.

Baseball is a funny game, huh? Turns on a dime.

[Slippery Pedro]

Back to the point of this thread - Clemens:

1. Those that suggest he did this to avoid Boston have no legs to stand on. If Roger had begged out of a start there, that's one thing. No way Torre and Hernandez rigged this so that Clemens could pitch a day early. Hell, if that was the case, Clemens would have "pulled something" two days ago and then NY would have held Lilly for his start. Everyone knows Clemens is not the same pitcher on 3 days rest. Why put yourself in that spot?

2. IMHO, Clemens is a team player - - how many other first ballot HOFers would take one on with less than a full tank at this stage of the season and stage of their career?

[pathogan]

Originally posted by Slippery Pedro
Two days ago, the Yankee rotation was going to steam roll - five 20-game winners :rolleyes: ............now, a Pettitte bomb and Hernandez neck later, the thing is falling like a house of cards.

Baseball is a funny game, huh? Turns on a dime.

long season, Pedro...it'll all shake out...I remember opening day someone ran a thread"is Pedro done? or something like that...thats one of the things that makes it so much fun

[hmrsf]

Originally posted by psunate29
Rumor has it Clemens started a day early in fear of also getting a stiff neck from whiplash after facing the BoSox and his owner Trot Nixon. Too bad for him he got ripped anyway.

Go Sox!


Not to rip a new poster but, no one owns Clemens. When Clemens was a Sox he would reguarly volunteer to pitch early. He is a gamer, when the team needs you.......he ALWAYS steps up. I am sure that has not changed one bit now that he is wearing a striped uni.

This is a great board so let's not do this.

[Baudib]

Clemens is a little looney, maybe a tad too intense for people to like him. But the things Clemens has done for his ballclubs -- above and beyond the call of duty -- are so well-documented it is really curious as to how he ever got a reputation as anything but a gamer.

(Re: '86, do you believe a manager trying to cover his ass, or a guy who has consistently said "GIVE ME THE BALL"?)

In any event...

I think Clemens could win the ERA title every year if he was on a 6-man rotation, giving him 29-31 starts. As is, he's one of the top pitchers in the game. On three days rest, all he's got is heart.

[BuzzBuzzard]

You've all missed the real reason. This is a YES Network conspiracy. The Clemens/Pedro match-up gives Cablevision a free pass and Georgie was not going to let that happen.

Having said that, I have only one other thing to say. Clemens will reach his 2001 loss total in April. Yeehaw! :D

[hmrsf]

Pedro was never projected to pitch on Friday. Yanks have been saying it because WFAN or whatever the Yankee station is announced the rotation.

It has never ever been projected Pedro for Friday. We have been using the 5 man reguardless of off days. Little said from opening day how it was going to be.

So no it is not a YES conspiracy. Like the Soxs would do anything to benefit YES. Come on now.

[ChrisCary]

YES isn't carrying Friday's game, CBS is

[BuzzBuzzard]

Originally posted by ChrisCary
YES isn't carrying Friday's game, CBS is Exactly.

BTW - before this gets out of control, I was not really believing this to be a YES conspiracy,

[hmrsf]

Originally posted by BuzzBuzzard
Exactly.

BTW - before this gets out of control, I was not really believing this to be a YES conspiracy,

Sorry Buzz, strange day. Man, it gets weird when you defend a Yankee. Need more time with a shrink or take up heavy drinking.

[Duque]

HM - I am tempted to take a picture of your post, with your avatar next to it, and save it for future reference. :D

[hmrsf]

Please don't.


What can I say the whole worlds gone mad!:p

[moose]

Originally posted by Baudib
On three days rest, all he's got is heart.

That's silly. You're judging him on one start. Sadly, he won't have a chance to increase the sample size.

-M
ps - i actually really dislike clemens, even though i'm a yanks fan. too many years of disliking him to like him now - i do want him to pitch well, though :)

[b-ball-lunachik]

Originally posted by Slippery Pedro
Back to the point of this thread - Clemens:

1. Those that suggest he did this to avoid Boston have no legs to stand on. If Roger had begged out of a start there, that's one thing. No way Torre and Hernandez rigged this so that Clemens could pitch a day early. Hell, if that was the case, Clemens would have "pulled something" two days ago and then NY would have held Lilly for his start. Everyone knows Clemens is not the same pitcher on 3 days rest. Why put yourself in that spot?

exactly..and I doubt he would have thrown a full bullpen session yesterday either...


2. IMHO, Clemens is a team player - - how many other first ballot HOFers would take one on with less than a full tank at this stage of the season and stage of their career?

ditto...with the chance to reach 300 wins this year and decide that's the last milestone he wants to reach and retire?

I'm sorry if I sound pissy but I just came back from dinner with my Met fan brother and admitted Clemens hater before the Piazza incidents (and his poor fiancee who is not a big baseball fan) arguing with me about Clemens -- still bringing up how he can't possibly have thought that was a ball and not a bat and that he threw at Piazza -- I can't believe we're still fighting about that...add some liquor into this scenario and it makes my debates with Chris on here seem very cordial ;)

back on topic this guy gets ripped all the time and he's been the ultimate professional since he's been in NY...everyone talks about Jeter being a leader, this guy is a leader by example if ever I saw one. He works with young pitchers, has done amazing things for Stanton and Pettitte and steps up whenever it's warranted -- putting the team first before his own milestones, reputation and health -- he could have injured himself by trying to overthrow when he didn't have it. Even if he strikes out 15 batters in a game, or surpasses Walter Johnson on the strikeout list, the first thing he does is talk about the guys behind him and how they came through with the bats -- whether they scored one run in a key spot or gave him a big cushion. His dedication to his body and craft is unprecedented -- he's not resting on his large salary (ala Cone showing up out of shape in 2000) or past accomplishments...how can anyone say he's anything but a team player and consummate professional?

[hmrsf]

ps - i actually really dislike clemens, even though i'm a yanks fan. too many years of disliking him to like him now - i do want him to pitch well, though ------posted by moose.


I know exactly what you mean but in reversed. I know I would be a more well adjusted adult if I could hate the guy. You can't root for someone close to 20 years (including minors) and turn it off because he changes uni's.

[SmedIndy]

Originally posted by hmrsf
Please don't.


What can I say the whole worlds gone mad!:p

It's A MADHOUSE..A MAAAAAADHOUSE!

Clemens tried to step up, and it didn't work. It's 162 games, and he wouldn't do anything to mess his arm up. No harm, no foul. And I would gather he gives a rats-patoot about his ERA or his W/L if the Yanks win the pennant.

[pwdennis]

There is a world of difference in the competitive fire between the young Rocket of 1986 and the older Clemens of the last 7-8 years. I am a life-long Bosox fan - I've forgiven him for leaving the Red Sox - and I think its about time to put 1986 to rest. Today's Rocket is a gamer.

The short rest starts made by Clemens usually find him lacking his usual control, rather than lacking stuff. That's what happened today - 7Ks in 5 IP, but too many pitches where he didn't want them. Also the Yankee defense this year hasn't been too slick

[Skip]

Originally posted by hmrsf
You can't root for someone close to 20 years (including minors) and turn it off because he changes uni's.
Tell that to Bill Simmons.

[johnny]

Originally posted by hmrsf
I came out of a pt home and jumped into the car and almost hit the ceiling.

For many reasons I was pleased to hear Roger was pitching. 1.) He is one of my all time favorite players. I really enjoy watching/hearing him pitch. Thus you can see my conflict. 2.) It annoys my fellow fans, when I always stand and applaud when Clemens is announced and departs and strikes someone out. (Instinct, nothing preplanned. Would gladdly like to stop if I could.)3.) When he does not pitch against us, I tend to enjoy the game and see him win.

I was sorry to hear he was getting hammered. I am so relieved that we won't be facing him this weekend.


Tip of the hat to you on that one hm. You are truly a fan of the game.:)

[hmrsf]

Originally posted by johnny



Tip of the hat to you on that one hm. You are truly a fan of the game.:)

Either that or stranger than ducks on rollerskates.;)

[BuzzBuzzard]

I agree fully in Torre's decision that there really was no one esle available. Having said that, let's not give Rog too much credit for taking the ball. There was no other option. He could not have said no.

Regardless, over his career, aren't his numbers on three days rest pretty poor?

[Slippery Pedro]

Originally posted by BuzzBuzzard
Regardless, over his career, aren't his numbers on three days rest pretty poor?

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=220411114

Clemens, who is 6-4 with a 4.74 ERA in 12 regular season starts on short rest, allowed five earned runs, eight hits and three walks, while striking out seven.

[b-ball-lunachik]

Originally posted by BuzzBuzzard
Having said that, let's not give Rog too much credit for taking the ball. There was no other option. He could not have said no.



Everything I've read and heard before the game and after indicates Rog volunteered, he wasn't asked...maybe Joe would have asked him anyway though....but they could have had Mendoza start the game -- even if he was just returning from injury -- then piece that game together...and if necessary, call Tessmer or someone up for Friday to relieve the bullpen for the Boston series...

Well, it's done now...just hope el Duque is ready tonight because otherwise, it's just going to cause more problems...I'm just as worried about Posada who took a foul ball off the shoulder right near where he scar was from the offseason surgery...he's not going tonight anyway but he did say he was concerned because it was painful....

[ChrisCary]

Originally posted by b-ball-lunachik


....but they could have had Mendoza start the game -- even if he was just returning from injury -- ..

and pitched the night before.

Buzz is right, no matter who made the call there was obviously no choice.

Clemens could have made it, Torre could have made and I could have made it, it was a no brainer.

This happens, it's baseball. Clemens isn't the first nor will he be the last to go on short rest

[BuzzBuzzard]

Originally posted by b-ball-lunachik
Everything I've read and heard before the game and after indicates Rog volunteered, he wasn't asked...maybe Joe would have asked him anyway though....but they could have had Mendoza start the game -- even if he was just returning from injury -- then piece that game together...and if necessary, call Tessmer or someone up for Friday to relieve the bullpen for the Boston series...Had not heard that. Adds a twist to it, but at the end of the day, like Chris said, it did not matter. There was only one guy who could have taken the ball and that was Roger.

[SmedIndy]

They could not have called up Tessmer. He was just sent down, and they have to wait 10 days. They were hosed, Tommy, they were hosed.

[KCBOOMER]

This has been an interesting thread. Kind of like a tag team wrestling match with the Yankee fans teamed with the Clemens supporters versus the Red Sox fans and the Clemens doubters.

[Slippery Pedro]

Originally posted by SmedIndy
They were hosed, Tommy, they were hosed.

But SmedIndy, God loves us SmedIndy.
Sorry, had to jump on that one. I'll behave now.

[pathogan]

Originally posted by KCBOOMER
This has been an interesting thread. Kind of like a tag team wrestling match with the Yankee fans teamed with the Clemens supporters versus the Red Sox fans and the Clemens doubters.

made an early comment about Clemens, knew it would stir up the faithful...if it helps, i find Martinez to be cut of the same cloth...

[moose]

Originally posted by SmedIndy
They could not have called up Tessmer. He was just sent down, and they have to wait 10 days. They were hosed, Tommy, they were hosed.

Seriously... isn't Mark Prior EVER going to get a chance? oh, wait...

:D

[hmrsf]

Originally posted by KCBOOMER
This has been an interesting thread. Kind of like a tag team wrestling match with the Yankee fans teamed with the Clemens supporters versus the Red Sox fans and the Clemens doubters.

Excuse me but some of Clemens most loyal and strongest supports ARE Red Soxs fans.

[SmedIndy]

Originally posted by moose


Seriously... isn't Mark Prior EVER going to get a chance? oh, wait...

:D

DON'T...GET...ME....STARTED.....:D