Best 1B Ever

[sweaver]

Who do you think is the best first baseman ever? Choose your own criteria, and vote for one of these fine ballplayers. With the current thread on Foxx, and the interest on the catchers thread waning, it's time to switch positions. Same rules as before, a mixture of eras, make your selection and then defend your guy.

[Duque]

Gehrig - he probably should have won at least 4 or 5 MVPs instead of the 2 he actualy did. You can certainly make the case for him in '31 and '34.

Foxx, though, is not far behind.

[SmedIndy]

Gotta cast my lot with the Iron Horse.

Foxx and Brouthers are up there. If Bags ages well, he'd enter the team photo.

What about the Big Hurt? Or is his move to DH full time going to erase his 1B play.

[KCBOOMER]

This poll doesn't have the makings of being a "horse" race.

[ChicagoDave]

It has to be Gehrig! One more reason to dislike the Yankees good fortune. Gehrig was be far the better all around 1st baseman during his playing days.

[gyb13]

Gehrig, hands down...

[Craig S.]

I'd like to be able to argue for someone else, but I'll cast yet another vote for Gehrig. I've always despised the Yankees, but I don't know many baseball fans who don't admire Gehrig. Jimmie Foxx was one of the greats, but he's just up against a guy who's too tough.

Why was Willie Upshaw not an option?

[Duque]

Who voted for Eddie Murray? ;)

No Johnny Mize option?

[Sablewolf]

Maybe it's just the Houston homer in me but I'd allready take Bags over Mize, though Mize was a fine player ... but it's no contest and I don't forsee anyone anytime soon overtaking the Iron Horse ...

[Slippery Pedro]

Originally posted by Duque
Who voted for Eddie Murray? Mea culpa.

[JamesI]

Originally posted by Duque
Who voted for Eddie Murray? ;)


Me too.

[pwdennis]

Afraid it has to be Lou Gehrig - even deflating for the high offense era he played. Second is McGwire, 3rd Foxx

[moose]

Originally posted by gyb13
Gehrig, hands down...

Gehrig, hands up as well... (for completeness)

(I'm going wild on parentheticals lately)
(sorry about that)
(see what i mean?)
(ok I'll stop now)
(No really)
*smack*
(thanks, I needed that)

[hmrsf]

Originally posted by Slippery Pedro
Mea culpa.

Hey that is not what you said last month!

I voted Gerig. But you gotta love Murray.

[Baudib]

The way I see it, it's Gehrig for peak performance, Gehrig for career performance, Gehrig for durability, Gehrig for consistency, Gehrig for overall incredible domination. And a bunch of guys competing for about sixth place.

Seriously, to say anyone is "second" belittles the stature Gehrig has among all-time first basemen. But I would rank them thus:

2. Foxx (honestly, I don't think it is that close. Huge difference in park effects make the stats look closer than they should be.)
3. Murray
4. McGwire
5. Bagwell -- I'll take Bagwell over McGwire at the end of the day.
6. Mize

[Skip]

I like Baudib's list top to bottom. Only 'maybe' would be to switch Foxx and Murray.

[johnny]

Gehrig hands down.


No Greenberg?

[tenkevcardinal]

I just had to vote for McGwire. I couldn't help it.

[JamesI]

Murray, Foxx, Bagwell, McGwire.
Even if this list are not as good as Gehrig, its a great list of players one anyone whould love to have as their first baseman.

[WiredTiger]

I have to go with Gehrig. I would have liked to see what Greenberg's career would have looked like if he hadn't been called off to war.

[pathogan]

...I voted for Buck Leonard.by his own admission, gehrig was a better hitter, though a much worse fielder. I just feel that the Negro League players got and get jobbed, and I try to make some claim for them whenever I can.plus, according to peers and riley, he was one awesome player

[sweaver]

So far, this one's not even close. I wonder if any other position will have such a runaway?

I didn't list Mize, Greenberg, or some of the others because I had a hard time seeing a case made for them being #1. On the top ten list, likely, but I was looking for a wide variety of eras and types that could make a case for the top spot.

BTW, I voted for the Iron Horse, too.

[WiredTiger]

Originally posted by sweaver
So far, this one's not even close. I wonder if any other position will have such a runaway?

I didn't list Mize, Greenberg, or some of the others because I had a hard time seeing a case made for them being #1. On the top ten list, likely, but I was looking for a wide variety of eras and types that could make a case for the top spot.

BTW, I voted for the Iron Horse, too.

I think the other position that might be a runaway is SS.

[Skip]

I'd be very surprised to see SS be as one-sided as 1b. Guess we'll see in about a week. :)

[moose]

Originally posted by Skip
I'd be very surprised to see SS be as one-sided as 1b. Guess we'll see in about a week. :)

IMO, it's a one person race. In 10 years, it may not be anymore. But right now, it is :)

[KCBOOMER]

If SS is not a runaway then people are voting with their hearts not their heads.

[Skip]

I agree on the one-sidedness of it, just that it wont be as much so as 1B. In general with first base the people voting with their hearts voted for the right guy too.

[sweaver]

Glad to see people anticipating, but let's keep this thread on the first sackers.

My fault for opening the door by wondering "out loud."

[SmedIndy]

Originally posted by sweaver
Glad to see people anticipating, but let's keep this thread on the first sackers.

My fault for opening the door by wondering "out loud."

I guess I'll keep my lobbying effort for Sammy Khalifa under wraps for a while.

And shouldn't third basemen be next? 2-3-4-5?

[sweaver]

I am rarely accused of being conventional.

[SmedIndy]

Originally posted by sweaver
I am rarely accused of being conventional.

Isn't it illogical to be unconventional? Or does it totally depend on the situation.

[Throwback]

I went with The Beast. This is the first time out of the probably 100 times I've picked the best 1B that I didn't go with Gehrig. Not sure why I swung over this time, but it really is a tossup.

[TimmyB]

Gehrig. Not even close.

After that, though... I'm surprised there hasn't been much mention of Cap Anson. Different era, of course, but, he was arguably, the best player of the 19th Century (even if he was a jerk). That has to count for something...

2) Anson
3) Foxx (2 & 3 are interchangable)
4) Murray
5) Greenberg

I agree, too, that it would have been interesting to see how Greenberg would have fared had he not gone to war. Also would have been interesting to see Foxx had his career not tanked so quickly at the end.

Of course, if we start going down that road, then we also have to wonder what Gehrig would have done into the early '40s. So... it's still Gehrig.

[ChicagoDave]

Originally posted by TimmyB
... I'm surprised there hasn't been much mention of Cap Anson. Different era, of course, but, he was arguably, the best player of the 19th Century (even if he was a jerk). That has to count for something...


I think there hasn't been much discussion about Anson because Gehrig is the overwhelming favorite here.

I believe Anson was the first member of the 3000 hit club. He was also the driving force behind so many of the Chicago championships.

[SmedIndy]

Originally posted by ChicagoDave


I think there hasn't been much discussion about Anson because Gehrig is the overwhelming favorite here.

I believe Anson was the first member of the 3000 hit club. He was also the driving force behind so many of the Chicago championships.

Actually, Anson didn't get 3,000 hits unless you count the National Association. Record keeping was spurious at best, but I think they researched box scores and found he was short of 3,000.

Anson played longer than almost every 19th century player, but I wouldn't say he was THE TOP player at any time (though he did have a remarkable 1886 season). He was consistent, and he, like Comiskey, bullied his teams to the top.

Even though most of you know of my affinity for that era, Anson wasn't the player his legend made him out to be, and most of the top 20th century first basemen were better players.

[b-ball-lunachik]

Originally posted by sweaver

I didn't list Mize, Greenberg, or some of the others because I had a hard time seeing a case made for them being #1.

I voted Gehrig....then comes Foxx....then to me, the field widens a bit...I had the Big Cat in the NDF Draft -- he finished third...(the original -- not this Galarraga -- what is up with recycling nicknames anyway?:D) I think Mize and Greenberg were cases for higher in the list than many of the guys listed but I don't think anyone would have a chance to win it from Gehrig, other than maybe Foxx...

just as an aside, this was my case for Mize...

A few words on Johnny "The Big Cat" Mize:

-- Mize was a true home run threat, hit for a high average and seldom struck out....a rare combination. He's the only man to hit 50 homeruns in a season while fanning less than 50 times.

-- Mize hit three home runs in a game a record six times.

-- He homered at least once in all 15 of the major league parks in use during his career.

-- After having surgery on both hips while in the minor leagues, was a Hypothetical ROY award winner according to Total Baseball for the '36 Cardinals :

Batting: .329, .577 SLG, .402 OBA and .979 OPS

-- Lost three years in his prime to the war. Give the vet a break.

-- Per Netshrine's gallery, only Ted Williams hit more home runs in the 40s than Mize.

-- This 10 time All Star and HOF finished in the Top 10 in MVP voting 6 times, including second place twice, and won the batting title batting .349 in 1939.

-- Got his "Big Cat" nickname for how he handled bad hops at first base, and later for his graceful stance at the plate and the way he avoided brushback pitches.

-- Even later in his playing career after being curtailed by injuries, he was still an extremely clutch player. He drove in 179 runs as a Yankee on only 230 hits.

He had a pinch hit single in the 9th inning of Game 3 in the 1949 World Series that won the game for the Yankees.

And in the 1952 World Series, he hit a pinch hit homerun in Game 3, hit another dinger in Game 4 which won the game for the Yanks in a shutout, and hit a three-run homer in Game 5 marking the first player to homer in three consecutive World Series Games. In Game 7, his single drove in the first run in the 4-2 Yankee win. He batted .400 in that Series which was a year before he retired.


I think him missing those few years in the war, really did affect his numbers...

[sweaver]

Originally posted by SmedIndy
Isn't it illogical to be unconventional? Or does it totally depend on the situation.

It is logical to do that which leads to the desired outcome. It is not logical to repeat what others have done, if it does not lead to desired outcomes.

Like, say, changing pitchers at the drop of a hat.

So, Luna, do you really think Mize was better than Gehrig? Granted, he was a great player, a Hall of Famer, and he lost stats to WWII. I still don't believe he could be #1.