Padres & Angels - - A Holy War

[Fritz Buelow]

I think Klesko has to be suspended on this one - coming out again in street clothes. Bob Watson's first test.

Sele's quote:

"If he thought I was throwing at him, he did the right thing."

was wild to me. I have never heard a pitcher say that before!

Saturday, March 9
Padres, Angels have two brawls in first inning
Associated Press

TEMPE, Ariz. -- Two bench-clearing brawls. Six ejections. One inning.

It didn't take long for the spring training game between the Anaheim Angels and San Diego Padres to get ugly. It started when Angels right-hander Aaron Sele hit Ryan Klesko with a pitch with two outs in the top of the first.


The Padres' Ryan Klesko (left) is one of six players ejected Saturday.

Klesko charged the mound to start the first brawl, and was ejected. Phil Nevin exacted some revenge by hitting a home run in the next at-bat.

But there was more payback in the bottom of the first. Padres right-hander Bobby Jones threw a pitch up and in on Angels third baseman Troy Glaus, who charged the mound on the 2-1 pitch, and both benches emptied.

Glaus and Jones were ejected, along with Padres manager Bruce Boche, Nevin and Angels third baseman Scott Spiezio.

"Nevin hit the homer and you figured that would have been enough," Spiezio said.

"You can't take liberties throwing at people's heads," Glaus said.

"I don't try to throw at people, but I try to protect my teammates," Jones said. "At some point, I knew I had to throw one up and in when they tell me that my teammate had been hit on purpose."

Klesko, in his street clothes when he jumped into the second brawl, said he thought Sele's pitch was a holdover from a June 17 interleague contest between the Padres and Seattle, Sele's team last season.

Klesko said he homered off Sele in an at-bat in which the pitcher brushed him back a couple of times. Klesko said Nevin told him Sele was angered by Klesko as he trotted around the bases and that he would hit Klesko if he faced him again in the spring. Sele denied trying to hit Klesko and called his explanation "a long theory." But he added, "If he thought I was throwing at him, he did the right thing."

[hmrsf]

Net, what is Seles BBA? He nailed Chris Stynes in the eye last year. Nothing happened, we thought it was an accident. Now I wonder? Is Sele a head hunter?

[chrisfostermusi]

How can you deter from a picther beaning someone? More interestingly, could it be considered assault? If I were Klesko I would file a police report. That would fix Sele's wagon.

Should baseball levy automatic suspensions if a picther has had a certain amount of bean balls over a certain amount of time?
I would say that any pitch that is directed at someone, gives the pitcher a 10 game or 2 start suspension (based on the pitchers frequency of starting or appearing) The plate umpire being the judge for intent. I mean we all know brush back pitches exist, but we seem to know when a pitch is intentionally meant for someone. If a pitcher inadvertantly hits a batter it should not count against him. Don't know if it is possible monitor this 100%.
How would the Netshrine faithful handle it.

Definately agree that Klesko should be fined and suspended for coming out in street clothes.

[hmrsf]

In a thread a while back Net did a BBA (brush back average.) Look it up, good work not sure I buy it. Pedro is no more a head hunter than I am. Big difference of drilling a guy in his dupa than taking aim at someones head.

[Fritz Buelow]

Originally posted by hmrsf
Net, what is Seles BBA? He nailed Chris Stynes in the eye last year. Nothing happened, we thought it was an accident. Now I wonder? Is Sele a head hunter?

.249 BBA for AS. Number 37 all-time. Just above Clemens.

Based on this, the facts, and his comment, I think he hit him with intent.

[SmedIndy]

You ever read about the old time brushback wars. I hate to creep into old-fogeyism, but they used to have some real fights back in the day.

Yeah, Klesko was an idiot and should be suspended, but it's not the friggin' apocalypse.

[KCBOOMER]

This is a two part problem. Today's hitters with there "dive-in" style of hitting aren't good at getting out of the way of pitches and today's pitchers who really aren't very good at brushing a batter back.

In the NL they could stop all this "charging to the mound" crap by only suspending the batter. Since the pitchers get to bat leave it up to the pitchers to protect their teammates. Afterall why should the pitcher be suspended for defending himself? Also only the pitcher faces ejection once a warning is given.

In the AL it is not quite as simple since pitchers don't bat but I am sure a retaliating pitcher could find someone to brushback.

I am sure it is just a trick of memory but it sures seems like if someone had charged Gibson or Drysdale in their day someone would have gotten his ass whipped.

[Fritz Buelow]

I think some batters today still think twice about who's on the mound. You've never seen a batter charge Roger Clemens, ever, and, he's hit a few batters in his time.

[Fuzzy Bear]

I was a Tony Conigliaro fan, and I remember seeing that play over and over on TV as a kid, so I don't minimize the problems with beanballs.

On the other hand, a guy throws inside and gets wild; it really is an occupational hazard to face a certain degree of "chin music". Ballplayers accept the risk of a beanball when they first suit up for Little League, and that risk gets progressive as the players grow taller, stronger, and more talented. Let the umps do what they need to do to protect the players, by all means, but beanballs are still going to happen. Being hit by a pitch is an accepted risk in baseball, being injured in a bench-clearing brawl is not.

[Fritz Buelow]

Bad blood still there - -

ANGEL REPORT
Scioscia Seeking Justice
By BILL SHAIKIN, TIMES STAFF WRITER

TEMPE, Ariz. -- As major league officials opened their disciplinary investigation into Saturday's twin brawls between the Angels and San Diego Padres, Angel Manager Mike Scioscia suggested a severe suspension would be in order for San Diego pitcher Bobby Jones.

Angel General Manager Bill Stoneman said he has fulfilled a request to provide video footage of the incidents to the office of Bob Watson, who handles discipline for Commissioner Bud Selig. Watson is scheduled to visit here Thursday on unrelated business.

Scioscia would not explicitly say who among the six ejected he believed should be suspended, but he left no doubt that he hoped officials come down hard on Jones, who triggered the second bench-clearing brawl by throwing an inside and high fastball to the Angels' Troy Glaus. "If they throw at someone's head, they should step in and suspend the guy and make it a deterrent--not just a one-day or two-day thing--so there are consequences," Scioscia said. "Then players wouldn't have to take it into their own hands."

After the Angels' Aaron Sele hit the Padres' Ryan Klesko on the back, a plunking Klesko said Sele had previously vowed to deliver, Klesko charged the mound, and the first fight was on. In response, Jones threw a fastball high and tight to Glaus, who charged the mound, and the second fight was on.

Jones acknowledged trying to "protect my hitters" by throwing inside to Glaus in retaliation for Sele hitting Klesko.

"If you read the quotes, it was obvious there was intent on their part," Scioscia said. "That's what was disturbing."

Scioscia did not care for Jones' explanation that the pitch was intended to be inside but not that high.

"The risk you run if you're throwing at somebody is, you're human, you miss by a foot and you run the risk of killing somebody," Scioscia said.

Chicago Cub pitcher Julian Tavarez was suspended for five regular-season games and San Francisco Giant infielder Russ Davis for three after a spring training brawl last year.

If Glaus and Scott Spiezio--the two Angels ejected--are suspended, the Angels hope the suspensions would not be enforced simultaneously, so that Spiezio could play third base during the games Glaus could not.

[Skip]

Originally posted by KCBOOMER
I am sure it is just a trick of memory but it sures seems like if someone had charged Gibson or Drysdale in their day someone would have gotten his ass whipped.
If you charged Gibson today, you'd still get your ass whipped.