Jayson Williams...I'm still in shock...

[b-ball-lunachik]

By now, I'm sure most of you have heard about the tragic shooting of a limo driver at Jayson Williams's mansion...the first report I heard on the news said it might have been a suicide, then yesterday it was officially declared a homicide...with reports coming out that Jayson may have been acting recklessly in twirling a gun while giving the limo driver and others a tour of his home...

Obviously, I feel the worst for this limo driver whose life was taken in what appears to be a horrendous accident...and I think another life may be taken if Jayson Williams is found to be responsible for this accident...it just makes the tragedy that much worse...

I've had the honor of meeting Jayson twice and you could not find a nicer person on the planet...and it seemed very genuine. I'm inspired by what he's done in his life -- he was left to raise his sister's children when he was still a baby himself...my friend went to a banquet in his honor and he said his proudest accomplishment in life was not reaching the NBA, but raising those kids and getting them to school each day, while he attended college and played basketball and that neither the kids or him barely missed a day of class...

Many athletes would be bitter about having some heartbreaking injuries that ended their career way too early...but he always said how lucky he was, and that he still got a lot of money and the least he could do was use it for good...his house was constantly opened up for charity events, etc...his very generosity of opening his house may be in the end what does him in...that and a very stupid, risky act...

I've done a lot of stupid things in my life, but it still amazes me how some people get away with it, and some people pay the ultimate price for it...while I think someone should pay for the loss of life, I'm just going to hold out hope, however naive that is, that Jayson wasn't the one involved...

anyone else heard any other theories on what may have happened? or have any thoughts on Jayson or the incident?

[Xanadu Dragon]

I heard it's a "homicide" only because they have to list a cause of death - and, it was not suicide or natural causes.

The homicide is only being used in medical circles and not legal/criminal.

Personally, I think this will be like the kid Ramsey (sic?) - - we'll never know.

[b-ball-lunachik]

Originally posted by Xanadu Dragon
I heard it's a "homicide" only because they have to list a cause of death - and, it was not suicide or natural causes.

The homicide is only being used in medical circles and not legal/criminal.

Personally, I think this will be like the kid Ramsey (sic?) - - we'll never know.

they had said no charges were filed -- thanks for that clarification steve...

you may be right in that we never know exactly what happened, but does that mean you think no one will ever be prosecuted?

I can't see how they can't charge someone because there were so many people there...unless they all say they were in another room or give 100 different accounts...I wonder if he had the powder burns on his hands or whatever...and if he is prosecuted, would he be found not guilty, more on his celebrity and reputation?

[Xanadu Dragon]

Does Williams have his own Kato?

[b-ball-lunachik]

Originally posted by Xanadu Dragon
Does Williams have his own Kato?

LMAO, I'm not sure!! :D With his generosity, he's probably letting about a hundred guys stay at that mansion -- it's certainly big enough...makes that Rockingham estate look like a pool house!! :D

if he did do it, what the hell was he thinking twirling a loaded shotgun? wtf? ugh....

[ChrisCary]

There were too many people there for nobody to be charged.

Someone is going to go to jail deservedly for a long time and my guess is it's Mr. Williams.

Prisons are flooded with good guys that made baaaad mistakes

[BuzzBuzzard]

I am with you Chris. Williams is going to the Big House.

[Mexicani Blue]

Originally posted by BuzzBuzzard
I am with you Chris. Williams is going to the Big House.

I have to disagree with you, my friend. He's going no where. He's a very likeable person and as sad as I am to say this, his positve influence will work in his favor.

I don't disagree that if he did shoot this guy, it was probably a very big mistake. I just don't see him sporting an orange jumpsuit.

Mex
:guapo:

[BuzzBuzzard]

Let me restate. Williams will be found guilty or pleasd to a lesser charge, but unlikely to see the inside of a jail. He will get preferential treatment and is the case with most people who have money.

[BuzzBuzzard]

Reports this morning are that Williams will be charged with manslaughter Monday morning.

[gyb13]

Here's the story:

Report: Williams agrees to surrender Monday (http://espn.go.com/nba/news/2002/0222/1339034.html)

[chrisfostermusi]

Ironic that this subject ends up under just shooting it.

[TGwynn19]

Originally posted by chrisfostermusi
Ironic that this subject ends up under just shooting it.

OUCH!!

[Eddie160]

I own a few fire arms none of which are loaded. they stay locked up and the only time I load them is when I'm at the range. Accident or not he used bad judgement and wrecklessness and I think he should be punished in one way or another. I mean didn't he read the safety instructions that came with that weapon?

[pathogan]

Williams is a nice man,certainly good to his friends, etc...middle of the night, everyone has had a little too much to drink...damn...another senseless stupid death from a gun...

[BuzzBuzzard]

Originally posted by pathogan
Williams is a nice man,certainly good to his friends, etc...middle of the night, everyone has had a little too much to drink...damn...another senseless stupid death from a gun... Agreed Pat, but that does not give an excuse. Manslaughter all the way and JW needs to do time.

[b-ball-lunachik]

Originally posted by BuzzBuzzard
Agreed Pat, but that does not give an excuse. Manslaughter all the way and JW needs to do time.

I'm still sick about this and I want to cry every time I see him on tv...but the Christofi family has one less person at the dinner table forever now, and Jayson needs to pay for his actions...it's just such a shame... :(

[ChrisCary]

I keep hearing about how badly Williams wants to express how he feels to the Cristofi family.

The silence is thunderous, Jayson.

[b-ball-lunachik]

Originally posted by ChrisCary
I keep hearing about how badly Williams wants to express how he feels to the Cristofi family.

The silence is thunderous, Jayson.


he did make a statement after his hearing yesterday...he said that he couldn't comment on the case on advice from his attorney but that him and his wife would like to express their heartfelt condolences to the Christofi family...

did you mean in person?

[ChrisCary]

Originally posted by b-ball-lunachik



he did make a statement after his hearing yesterday...he said that he couldn't comment on the case on advice from his attorney but that him and his wife would like to express their heartfelt condolences to the Christofi family...

did you mean in person?

Expressing condolences and apologizing are not the same thing.

[b-ball-lunachik]

Originally posted by ChrisCary


Expressing condolences and apologizing are not the same thing.

you said how he feels, not apologizing...

[ChrisCary]

Originally posted by b-ball-lunachik


you said how he feels, not apologizing...

Exactly!!

[b-ball-lunachik]

Originally posted by ChrisCary


Exactly!!

oh, c'mon...you know he feels badly and would like to apologize but he can't do that...his lawyers would be all over his ass and you know it!!!!!!!

[ChrisCary]

Originally posted by b-ball-lunachik


oh, c'mon...you know he feels badly and would like to apologize but he can't do that...his lawyers would be all over his ass and you know it!!!!!!!

Actually to be perfectly honest I don't know how he feels, I've never blown a hole in another mans chest before.


I'm sure his lawyers are telling him that it's in his best interest not to say a word and he's heeding that advice. Which is my point, although he says he'd like to express how he feels the truth is he's more concerned with his own hide than apologizing.

I'm sure he feels badly but I'm not sure if he feels worse about his predicament or for the life he took

[b-ball-lunachik]

ugh...WFAN is reporting and don't quote me, but something to the effect of -- a witness told Sports Illustrated that Jayson tried to put palm and fingerprints of Christofi's on the gun...then they disposed of the clothes Jayson was wearing at the time...it was Jayson's brother who called it in as a suicide...that's of course evidence tampering and if found to be true, the grand jury will probably charge him with the more serious offense -- aggravated manslaughter...

Assuming he was drinking, I know they don't always make the best decisions, but this is sickening...how frigging stupid do you have to be to first play with the gun and then try to cover it up while the man is bleeding to death?

Don't they see any of the million shows out there on criminology and how they can figure anything out for god's sake? excuse me, but now I'm just angry...not only should he go to jail, but anyone who had any part in this cover up should go to jail too...ugh...

[b-ball-lunachik]

Originally posted by ChrisCary


Actually to be perfectly honest I don't know how he feels, I've never blown a hole in another mans chest before.


I'm sure his lawyers are telling him that it's in his best interest not to say a word and he's heeding that advice. Which is my point, although he says he'd like to express how he feels the truth is he's more concerned with his own hide than apologizing.

I'm sure he feels badly but I'm not sure if he feels worse about his predicament or for the life he took

I can understand him listening to the lawyer's advice and I'm sure that's difficult for him not to reach out to that family...

I want to say that I think he feels worse for the life he took than his own hide, but his actions that night don't seem to be proving out that way...under the influence or not, he did put himself first, whether the man could have been saved or not...they should have tried to do anything possible for the man instead of worrying about themselves...

Since he didn't know the man well, I'm sure he is probably feeling worse about his own predicament as sad as that is...I still can't believe how this thing happened...it's sickening...

[ChrisCary]

I can understand him listening to his lawyers also, but it's not the actions of a man who, as he tries to paint himself, would like nothing more than to reach out to the family of the man he killed.

he put himself first that night and every night since.

he killed a man and tried to make a dead man take the rap as a suicide with ZERO regard for the life he took and zero regard for his family, instead of trying to reach out and apologize he tried to make their grieving worse.

He has shown me no regard for any life but his own.



I know many think of him as a geat and charitable guy but as much as I know now (which is no more or less than the rest of us) he is nothing more than a common criminal excpet that he can aford a high priced lawyer that may be able to get him off at the expense of the Cristofi family.

[b-ball-lunachik]

I honestly didn't hear the reports you did about him wanting so badly to reach out to the family but I believe you...you know how I felt about this from day one and you and I have gone round and round on this but I can't even argue his character anymore...

I would never have played with a gun like that but I also would like to think that if I did something stupid like that, I'd have more regard for the man bleeding than my own ass...whether or not there were 10 other people there encouraging me...

I have to agree with you now that this doesn't seem to be a case of a bad accident but a series of bad choices that led to a tragic result...and he needs to pay for this, as do the others...I don't know what is more sickening -- that they let the man die while they created an alibi and threw away clothes or that they tried to discredit the man and make him appear to be unstable and suicidal...

I'm still kind of shocked about it, and I find myself still wishing that the evidence proves otherwise, but it seems unlikely...like you said -- meeting him a few times and his past record of being charitable and a nice guy can't overshadow this one night.....

I would say that he's never getting off for this, but there is OJ...I think he'll wind up paying for this crime though.... maybe someone out there will learn a lesson from this...

[Fritz Buelow]

Either way, they'll get him on the civil suit. Look for his house on eBay any day now.

[Skip]

Dont know about that "Fritz" - didnt seem to hamper OJ's style much.

If it was merely a stupid, and negligent, accident, JW needs to make serious amends but jail may not have to be part of it. How much more could he do that is good with his financial resources and name recognition than rot in a cell. Jail is a punishment, SUBSTANTIAL service is closer to true societal payback.

If he was trying to cover up, then punishment is much more in order, and of a very very severe kind.

[Fritz Buelow]

Originally posted by Skip
If it was merely a stupid, and negligent, accident,

This just in:

TRENTON, N.J. -- Jayson Williams, charged in the shooting death of a limousine driver at his mansion, tried to put the victim's palm print and fingerprints on the gun, Sports Illustrated reported.

Around the time the shooting was reported to authorities as an apparent suicide, Williams and two men also disposed of the bloody clothes the former New Jersey Nets player was wearing, a witness told the magazine in an article published this week. The magazine did not identify the witness.


That's bad.

[satchel]

:warn:

Folks, this is the kind of topic that brings out emotionally charged responses in everyone.

Some of us try to put ourselves in Williams' shoes, and we can't imagine doing something so stupid and having such wanton disregard for human life, so we try to see the best in him and imagine he's feeling contrite and deeply sorry.

Some of us try to put ourselves in Williams' shoes, and we can't imagine doing something so stupid and having such wanton disregard for human life, so we imagine him continuing to act in that selfish and stupid vein.

I guess what I'm saying is, I don't want to close the thread because there's still news coming out and I think there's still more to learn from each other as we think about this senseless killing. But I would ask that we keep the speculations about what's going on in Williams' head to a minimum, as that is something none of us can ever know. Let's try to focus on the news and our own reactions to it, and not try to guess at whether Williams is really sorry or not.

[gyb13]

Williams faces more charges in driver's death
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Associated Press

FLEMINGTON, N.J. -- Prosecutors filed more charges Monday against Jayson Williams in the shooting death of a limousine driver at his mansion, alleging the former NBA star wiped his own fingerprints off the shotgun and told guests to tell police it was suicide.

Williams, 34, has already been charged with manslaughter in the Feb. 14 shooting of Costas Christofi. Prosecutors have said the former New Jersey Net was handling the shotgun recklessly.

The new charges are hindering apprehension, evidence tampering, witness tampering and conspiracy to obstruct the law, which carry a combined penalty of more than 12 years in prison. Manslaughter carries up to 10 years in prison.

Williams surrendered at the courthouse Monday and posted $20,000 bail before leaving. His attorney, Joseph Hayden, declined to answer questions about the new charges.

"When we have our day in court, we will address all relevant facts and allegations, and we are confident Mr. Williams will be cleared of all charges," Hayden said.

According to court papers, Williams removed the clothing he was wearing when Christofi was shot and gave investigators other clothes. He also allegedly tried to position the shotgun at an angle to make it seem as if the driver shot himself.

Williams wiped his fingerprints off the shotgun, then "attempted to imprint the victim's fingerprints upon the very same shotgun in an effort to convince investigators that the shooting had been self-inflicted," prosecutors said.

Several witnesses at Williams' estate 30 miles from Trenton told police Williams told them to lie "in order to convince detectives that the victim's death had been self-inflicted," prosecutors said.

Two of his guests, Kent Culuko, 29, and John W. Gordnick, 44, were also charged Monday with evidence tampering, hindering apprehension and conspiracy to obstruct the law. Culuko, a former NBA player who was waived by the Nets in 1997, was also charged with witness tampering.

Neither Culuko or Gordnick returned calls seeking comment. Both were expected to surrender Monday or be arrested.

Christofi had been hired to drive Williams and his friends home from a Harlem Globetrotters game in Bethlehem, Pa.

Acting prosecutor Steven C. Lember said more than a dozen people were at the estate when the shooting occurred, including two children and four members of the Globetrotters. He did not release their names.

Williams removed his clothes after shooting Christofi and told Culuko to dispose of them, the court documents say. Gordnick took the clothing away but has since turned it over to investigators, the documents say.

Culuko helped Williams to wipe the shotgun clean and also told witnesses to lie to investigators about how the shooting occurred, authorities said.

Williams told guests to tell investigators that everyone in the home had been in a downstairs recreation area when Christofi was shot in a master bedroom upstairs, the court documents said.

"He pretty much convinced everyone there to engage in this behavior -- not just these two," Lember said.

Williams is a former All-Star who retired after a leg injury in 2000. He had been working as an NBC basketball analyst before the shooting. The network has said he will not appear on air until the charges are resolved.

[gyb13]

Williams facing aggravated manslaughter charge (http://espn.go.com/nba/news/2002/0501/1376497.html)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Associated Press

FLEMINGTON, N.J. -- Former NBA All-Star Jayson Williams faces a new, more serious manslaughter charge in an indictment returned Wednesday in the shooting death of a limousine driver at his estate.

Williams was indicted on a series of charges, including aggravated manslaughter, which carries a sentence of up to 30 years in prison. He also was indicted on earlier charges of aggravated assault, witness and evidence tampering, and reckless manslaughter, which carries a maximum penalty of 10 years.

A friend of the former New Jersey Nets star, John Gordnick, was indicted on two charges, including evidence tampering.

The 34-year-old Williams was charged Feb. 25 in the Feb. 14 death of Costas Christofi.

Williams, who remains free on $270,000 bail, appeared in court on the charges in March. He did not enter a plea and was not required to do so until a grand jury indictment. A date for arraignment was not immediately scheduled.

His spokeswoman, Judy Smith, has said Williams will plead innocent "at the appropriate time." His attorney said Wednesday he was pleased the case can now go to trial.

"We remain confident that after a full exploration of the facts the truth will show that the death of Mr. Christofi was a tragic accident but not a criminal event," Joseph Hayden said.

Gordnick's lawyer did not immediately return calls for comment.

Prosecutors say Williams was recklessly handling his 12-gauge shotgun and that he and two friends, Gordnick and Kent Culuko, tried to make the shooting look like a suicide.

Prosecutors would have to show Williams demonstrated "extreme indifference to human life" to prove the aggravated manslaughter charge.

Acting Hunterdon County Prosecutor Steven Lember has said there were reasons to believe that alcohol "is something we need to look into," but has not said whether Williams was drinking before the shooting.

In a deal with prosecutors last week, Culuko pleaded guilty to tampering with evidence and witnesses and agreed to testify against Williams and Gordnick.

Christofi, 55, was apparently invited on a tour of Williams' mansion in Alexandria Township after picking up the former NBA All-Star's friends at a Harlem Globetrotters game in Bethlehem, Pa., prosecutors said.

The 6-foot-10 Williams was once among the NBA's best rebounders, but leg injuries ended his career and he retired from the Nets in 2000. Since the shooting, he has been suspended from his job as an NBA analyst for NBC.

[gyb13]

The trial (which had been scheduled for feb 18) is off!

http://espn.go.com/nba/news/2003/0204/1503836.html

[rcartman28]

Gee, what a surprise, another jock gets off the legal hook.

[JamesI]

Originally posted by rcartman28
Gee, what a surprise, another jock gets off the legal hook.


he's not off the hook yet. Which is good since he's guilty

[pathogan]

...how sad...