Players Snub Negro Leaguers (Merged Threads)

[Xanadu Dragon]

Shame on the players - - a big thumbs down. Some of them should have made an effort on this one. Esp. Albert Pujols - - that's just flat out wrong.

Modern players snub Negro Leagues awards
By DOUG TUCKER
.c The Associated Press

KANSAS CITY, Mo. (AP) - Back when he was barnstorming with Satchel Paige's Kansas City Monarchs, Jesse Rogers put up with lots of abuse - racial insults, low pay, restaurants that wouldn't serve him - to name a few.

Now he's an old man and suffering one more indignity. He has been nearly forgotten by succeeding generations of black players who enjoy megabuck-contracts thanks to the trails he helped blaze.

``I think it's wrong. You should never forget where you come from,'' said Rogers, who spent most of his life working for the U.S. Post Office. ``You should never forget that. I guess guys just don't want to be disturbed.''

Modern players' lack of appreciation for their athletic ancestral roots was a major topic of conversation at the Negro Leagues Baseball Museum on Wednesday night as people gathered for the second annual Legacy Awards.

Presented by the Museum, the awards honor both current and past players and administrators for their contributions and achievement to baseball. But for the second straight year, almost no current major league players bothered to show up to get their awards.

Museum officials said they were unable, despite months of trying, to even get an acknowledgment from home run king Barry Bonds, who was voted the Oscar Charleston Award. Also missing was St. Louis third baseman Albert Pujols, who was voted the rookie of the year but did not attend the ceremony even though he lives in Independence, Mo., about a half-hour away.

``That's the one that was really disappointing,'' said Bob Kendrick, a museum official. ``That's the one that really hurts.''

The only current players who appeared in person were Jimmy Rollins of the Philadelphia Phillies and Colorado outfielder Juan Pierre, who shared the Cool Papa Bell Award for stolen bases.

``I know some of the Negro League history, but coming here, I realize there's a lot that I have to learn about the struggles of the men who paved the way,'' Rollins said.

In a tour of the museum, Rollins was reminded of how hard the Negro League players worked to drum up fans.

``In the Negro Leagues, they weren't just athletes. They were characters, they were entertainers,'' he said. ``Everybody had a nickname and a story behind them. When I leave this game maybe in about 20 years, I hope I'm the same way.''

Seattle general manager Pat Gillick, who showed up to accept the award for executive of the year, agreed that an overall lack of historic knowledge is pervasive among major leaguers.

``It would be nice if they knew what the history of the game was and who came before them,'' Gillick said.

Pellom McDaniels, an author, historian and former NFL player, said athletes generally do not have the same attachments to their community that Negro League players had.

``We now have this wonderful opportunity to have an integrated society,'' McDaniels said. ``But in talking to these old gentlemen, you learn that once integration happened, because it happened so quickly, some of that was lost.

``No longer is a player so responsible to his community, like the players were in the Negro Leagues. That feeling of responsibility to the community was not transferred to this generation.''

Other award winners included Roger Clemens, Alex Rodriguez, Randy Johnson, Larry Walker, Ichiro Suzuki, Jason Giambi, Larry Bowa, Lou Piniella, Hank Aaron and Louis Smith, a Kansas City businessman and longtime supporter of major league baseball in Kansas City.

Rogers, now retired from the post office, walks with difficulty these days but wastes little time brooding over the way young players snub their legacy.

``I don't pay them no mind. You aren't going to change them,'' he said. ``The heck with them.''

AP-NY-02-13-02 2120EST

[LeGrandOrange]

You know, I really hope Albert Pujols's attitude isn't the second coming of Bobby Bonilla after seeing this.

[Xanadu Dragon]

Museum officials said they were unable, despite months of trying, to even get an acknowledgment from home run king Barry Bonds, who was voted the Oscar Charleston Award.

What would have been the big deal about sending a telegram to them - thanking them for the award, saying it was an honor, and informing that he would be unable to attend (for whatever reason - lie)? How much time/effort would that take? Shoot, if you really want to make it look good - on the no show - donate something to them, like a bat or a ball used in the HR record - - or, at the least, ten grand for the musem. What's ten grand to Barry? Man, it's probably a tax write-off too.

I mean, this is not me (sitting along) in my study one night saying he's the NetShrine Player of the Year - - this is the Negro Leagues Baseball Museum. What a slap in the face.

[mainsr]

I remember going to a SABR function once in the early 1980s at Shea Stadium. Ed Lynch, who was then a Mets pitcher, popped in unannounced, quoted a few old-time stats, and then popped out. Some of the guys who deal with ballplayers a lot, like Ritter, remarked that it was remarkable to see a player who knew anything at all about the history of the game. Their view was that players spent their entire youth playing the game, while it's geeks like us who actually learn its history. I remember reading something a while back about how only one or two players showed up at Curt Flood's funeral. If I remember right, hardly any players went to The Babe's funeral. Certainly hardly any went to Cobb's. Nature of the beast, I suppose.

[mainsr]

Originally posted by Xanadu Dragon
I mean, this is not me (sitting along) in my study one night saying he's the NetShrine Player of the Year

I think you're selling yourself short. I think you should name Bonds NetShrine Player of theYear, invite him to your house for a celebratory dinner, and then whine to the press when he doesn't show. I'll bet you there are dozens of reporters who'd be happy to write about it.

[Xanadu Dragon]

Originally posted by mainsr
I think you're selling yourself short. I think you should name Bonds NetShrine Player of theYear, invite him to your house for a celebratory dinner, and then whine to the press when he doesn't show. I'll bet you there are dozens of reporters who'd be happy to write about it.

:loud: Next year, I'm doing that!

On your other post - agreed. Don Mattingly once said he thought Babe Ruth was a cartoon character or something - until he got to NY and learned about him.............

Their view was that players spent their entire youth playing the game, while it's geeks like us who actually learn its history.

100% true - - or, at least, 95%.

Some guys, like a Schilling, do know the past.

[KCBOOMER]

The NLBM recently had their annual awards dinner with Roy Firestone as master of ceremonies. Ozzie Smith attended as a presenter. Mudcat Grant and Tommy Davis were there. They came to show their support for the museum and the players of the Negro Leagues. About 1,000 people attended the dinner.

The only two recipients of awards to attend were Juan Pierre (OF-Rockies) and Junior Rollins (SS-Phillies) who shared the Cool Papa Bell Award for most stolen bases in the National League.

This is a wonderful museum and I encourage everyone to visit if they are in KC. The website is www.nlbm.com.

Jason Whitlock, KC Star columnist and a black man, excoriated Barry Bonds for his non-response to an invitation to attend the dinner. Whitlock stated that the NLBM tried for three months to contact Bonds but he never responded. Whitlock wasn't complaining that Bonds didn't attend. He was furious that in three months time Bonds never took the time to respond to the invitation either yes or no.

Whitlock has frequently chastised current day black players for their failure to support the NLBM because he sees this as a failure of these players to recognize the efforts of those who struggled so they could reap the benefits.

[ChrisCary]

Originally posted by Xanadu Dragon

Don Mattingly once said he thought Babe Ruth was a cartoon character or something - until he got to NY and learned about him.............
.

To be fair to Donnie, as a kid I thought Babe Ruth was a superhero, comic charachter of some sort

On the topic, I've been upset for a while at baseball (stars in particular) players, apparant lack of respect for the history of the game.

After reading this article Pujols and Bonds have leapt to the top of my shit list


I always found it funny that we praise guys like Schilling and Clemens for their knowledge and appreciation of baseball history.
While it is refreshing to see aren;t we praising what should be the norm?

[Xanadu Dragon]

Yeah Chris - it should be the norm.
I'm not saying that they need to know who Taylor Douthit was - - but, they should have some knowledge and respect for the game's tradition and trail blazers.

[KCBOOMER]

You know this thing with Bonds doesn't hurt his reputation at all. How could it, it is so poor. Whitlock has been a long time defender of Bonds("Okay, he's not a nice guy, but he does it on the field") but he is furious over this.

I don't know what Pujols problem was and for all I know it might be legitimate. It is getting very close to spring training starting.

[ChrisCary]

Not to split hairs or take the thread off topic but here is the Mattingly quote, he doesn't say it was when he got to the Yankees that he realized Ruth was a real person.


"Honestly, at one time I though Babe Ruth was a cartoon character. I really did, I mean I wasn't born until 1961 and I grew up in Indiana."

[Xanadu Dragon]

OK Chris - relax - we're not dissing your boy Donnie. ;)

[sweaver]

Remember, there is a reason for the dumb jock stereotype. It hasn't been that long since most of you have been in school.

Athletes of this caliber are often coddled, and it's not necessary for them to study or learn anything. I know the athletes in my class are often disappointing students.

On the other hand, some of them are excellent students. It depends on the individual.

[KCBOOMER]

I guess it is like the strippers and porn stars that show up on the "Howard Stern Show". Dumbest bastards on earth but they have great hooters.

[pathogan]

I simply dont get the attitude on this one...a few years back ralph Kiner was pushing to get full pensions for living Negro League ballplayers{I don't know what happened to that.] Bonds, well, c'mon,he makes Clemens look popular.Believe it or not, Albert Belle was very aware of Negro League players,he sent copies of a SABR negor league book to very living negro leaguer...I have always thought that any MLB record before 1947 should have an asterisk,after all at least 1/3 of the best players were not allowed to play...I have been lucky enough to meet a few of these men,and was astonished at their lack of bitterness. A huge forgotten part of baseball history, not helped by the BS Satchell Paige stories[the true ones are good enough} Or the Josh Gibson numbers[which are non-verifiable]..sorry if I difted off subjetc,one of my passions,this subject...

[Xanadu Dragon]

Originally posted by pathogan
I have been lucky enough to meet a few of these men,and was astonished at their lack of bitterness.

While this is not the rule, it is true - or at least, this is what you hear in interviews. More the reason why the Bonds in the world can learn from these guys.

[KCBOOMER]

If you ever get to go to the NLBM and Buck O'Neill is there you will have a visit that will be a memory for a life time.

[Xanadu Dragon]

Hey, I'm happy enough just to hear Buck say "Cooooool Pa-pa Bell."

[Baudib]

You think Pujols is bad....I remember a few years before the 50th anniversary of Jackie Robinson, Sport magazine did a poll of major leaguers, asking them what they knew about Jackie, and many of them, big stars, knew absolutely nothing. Griffey Jr., who you think would know better just because his father's generation really reaped the rewards of Jackie's pioneering achievement, was absolutely clueless. He said something like, "I guess he's someone important, but I never really bothered to learn anything about him."

[mainsr]

Originally posted by ChrisCary
I always found it funny that we praise guys like Schilling and Clemens for their knowledge and appreciation of baseball history.
While it is refreshing to see aren;t we praising what should be the norm?

Why? I mean, it's nice if guys know baseball history, but it's pretty irrelevant to their jobs. Bill Gates didn't finish college. George Soros, I believe, never even went to college. It'd be good if our business leaders all got college diplomas, but really, so what if they don't? I've never understood the charade of the college student/athlete - you go to a Division I school to play football or hoops, that's all that you're really there for - and decrying professional athletes for not knowing the history of their sports is the same thing. Why should it "be the norm," XD? Do you know the history of human resource management? I sure as hell couldn't describe to you the Great Moments in Equity Research History.

This is a little bit of a digression - whether you know the history of an organization or not, you shoud at least have the decency to respond to an invitation.

KCBOOMER, maybe they blew it off because they're sore that the airport got moved out of downtown.

[Xanadu Dragon]

Originally posted by mainsr
Why should it "be the norm," XD? Do you know the history of human resource management?

I am the history of human resource management. ;)

Just kidding.

Rob - I've already posted this here - - I don't claim that they should know who hit the shot that Mays caught in the 1954 WS - - but, they should know things like the struggle of the Negro League players, Curt Flood, etc., and be respectful of their contributions.

[KCBOOMER]

Mainsr,

If Pujols was home, which I do not know, I don't think a 30 minute drive would require him to go use KCI. As far as moving the airport "out of town" it is less than 20 minute drive to the NLBM from there.

Black players do not need to know their history to play ball. They need to know their history to know why they can play ball.

People who ignore history are damned to repeat it.

[Skip]

Originally posted by KCBOOMER
People who ignore history are damned to repeat it.
Never been truer than today. Baseball or otherwise.

[Max Power]

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/sports/5124128.htm

This is a step up - - this year - - and sorta explains Bonds last year.

Posted on Fri, Feb. 07, 2003

McRae working to get word out about Negro Leagues Baseball Museum
By DICK KAEGEL
The Kansas City Star

Even if most of the honorees won't attend the third annual Negro Leagues Baseball Museum Legacy Awards Show tonight, many will be present on videotape.

Former Royals outfielder Brian McRae, a broadcaster for mlb.com, had a hand in that.

"We helped get the guys that couldn't get here to videotape their acceptance speeches," McRae said.

"So we've pretty much got full participation from everybody. Barry Bonds didn't even know he won an award last year, so we talked to his people and we got something from almost everybody who got an award."

Two players who will appear in person are relief pitchers John Smoltz of the Braves and "Everyday" Eddie Guardado of the Twins. They'll receive the Hilton Smith Award as the reliever of the year in their leagues.

Lee Smith, who holds the major-league record for most saves (478), will present the awards.

Braves general manager John Schuerholz, former Royals GM, will receive the Andrew "Rube" Foster Award as National League executive of the year.

After a private reception at the Negro Leagues Baseball Museum, there will be a dinner for award winners, celebrities and patrons at the Kansas City Marriott Downtown hotel. Tonight's main event is the 8 p.m. show at the Folly Theater where a limited number of tickets will be available at the box office.

However, such winners as Sammy Sosa, Alex Rodriguez, Tony La Russa, Frank Robinson and Bonds will be missing.

McRae suggested the timing of the ceremony might be one reason.

"It's hard to get guys to go somewhere for a weekend right before spring training," he said.

Educating players about the museum's location and importance could help.

"I just hate it when people think the guys don't care," McRae said.

"We know that if it wasn't for the guys that played in the Negro Leagues, we wouldn't have had a chance to play in the big leagues. We understand that. Because I live in Kansas City, I know about it, but guys that live elsewhere, they know about the Negro Leagues and they know about Jackie Robinson, but they have no clue about where the museum is...."

McRae will help spread the word with interviews and updates on the mlb.com Web site.

[pwdennis]

Unfortunately ignorance of the past is not limited to baseball players. Most Amercians know that Geiorge Washington was our first president. After that they believe that ol' George was followed directly in succession by Abe Lincoln, FDR, JFK, Ronald Reagan and Bill Clinton. What they can tell you about about any of these leaders is minimal although they probably remember Monica.

[sweaver]

Kudos to Brian McRae. His work here should be recognized.

[JamesI]

Well, I can understand the weekend before spring training. But I wonder how many would show if the awards were in January.

[Skip]

Originally posted by sweaver
Kudos to Brian McRae. His work here should be recognized. I just hate it when a guy I've always considered an empty suit ends up doing something worthwhile.

... but I still don't think most players would bother to show, whenever the event was held.

[KCBOOMER]

The Royals after embarrassing the hell out of themselves last year during their game promotion honoring the Negro Leagues are acting like they might try to do something worthwhile this year.

Last year they scheduled Negro League night against the San Diego Padres (a town with zero Negro League background) and then decided not to wear Negro League uniforms because they cost to much. Just a debacle.

This year the opponent will be St. Louis and each team will wear the appropriate garb.